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Done (Almost) DIY - Y8 Oil Pump Shim, Port DIY Soon...
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grizzled
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Post subject: Done (Almost) DIY - Y8 Oil Pump Shim, Port DIY Soon...
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:21 pm First and foremost, the disclaimer. These mods are to be done AT YOUR OWN RISK! If you do this correctly or incorrectly and you
somehow screw up your motor, don't come knocking on my door. Also I would highly recommend not doing ANY mods to your oil pump
unless you have an oil pressure gauge to check your work.
Boost Lurker
A little background:
I recently lost #4 rod-bearing on my turbo 97 EX. Being the kind of person who asks why a lot, I decided to do some research. Was there
any correlation between why this rod bearing went out first and the fact that it's the farthest one from the oil pump? Why are all of
these guys running around with Z6 SOHCs at high boost and not having any problems with rod bearings? Why are there countless posts
from guys like me with Y7s and Y8s who have lost rod bearings? Why does this crap always happen to the financially challenged?
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006
12:00 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Houston, TX
Two Main Differences; Z6 vs. Y8 Oil Delivery:
From doing some comparison research on the Z6 and Y8 motors, I found that there are 2 major oil delivery differences between the
D16Z6 and the D16Y8s. One main difference is the crank. The 92-95 cranks were made with reliability and forethought in mind. Not only
do they have dual oil galleys for each rod journal, but they're also chamfered. The 96-00 cranks have only one un-chamfered oil galley
per journal. Translated, this basically means not as much oil gets to the Y8 rod bearing and it doesn't get spread to the outside edges of
the bearings as quickly. The other huge difference between the two generations of SOHC is the oil displacement of the pumps, or
volume. According to the 92-95 and 96-00 manuals, the earlier generation oil pump displaces 11.89 gallons/minute at only 6000 rpm.
The 96-00 oil pump displaces only 8.8 gallons/min at 6800rpm. In basic terms, the Y8 oil pump has 35% less flow and doesn't reach max
flow until nearly 1000 rpm later than the Z6. To me, thats a pretty big difference, and for a turbo motor thats a huge difference.
Shimming the pump:
Simplest and cheapest thing we can do is shim the relief valve on the oil pump. This isnt necessarily the perfect fix for a problem like
getting oil to that last rod bearing, but it will help by pushing the oil there faster. On the other hand, if you use too big of a shim youll
also push oil right past your newly blown seals. Stock pressure on your Y8 motor at operating temperature is 10psi minimum at idle and
50psi minimum at 3000 rpm. If you have these numbers already, using a shim thickness of approximately .025-.035. You should get a
slight bump in pressure to somewhere in the vicinity of 70-90psi at 3000rpm. Updated shim thickness as of 10/9/07, refer here for
why: http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32661&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40
From what I can tell, installing the shim in your relief valve does not necessitate removing your oil pump, but I had a hard time getting
my Sealing bolt out even though the pump was sitting on my bench.
D16Y8 Oil Pump:
1. Drain your oil, or if you have your pump out, get a clean surface ready to work on.
2. Unscrew your sealing bolt, its a hex bit. One thing to remember, the Sealing Bolt is spring loaded, so be ready to keep it from
shooting off under the workbench. Once you get your Sealing Bolt out you should cover the hole with tape because any dirt or debris
inside will cause your Relief Valve to stick.
3. Get your shim ready. I had to find a .050" thick washer (pictured below) and modify it to a final thickness of 0.025-0.035", inner
diameter of 0.30" and an outer diameter of 0.45". Also make sure the hole is centered to ensure a correct fit.
*NOTE: The thickness below is 0.050", the ACTUAL thickness should be 0.025-0.035"
4. Next, clean your Relief Valve extremely well, again, any dirt or debris can make the Relief Valve bind.
5. Put your shim between the spring and Sealing Bolt and put the Relief Valve on the other end of the spring.
6. Coat the Spring and Relief Valve with a light coat of motor oil.
7. Put the assembly back into your Oil Pump.
8. Watch your oil pressure! Remember, stock is 10psi warm at idle, 50psi warm at 3000rpm. We are looking for 70-90psi or so at 3k.
Next up, Porting the Oil Pump:
Coming soon...
(preliminary before and after porting pics)
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Some numbers I'd like to add:
I'd love to see some numbers of people running X shim thickness getting Y oil pressures. Also, have any of you guys out there blown
seals, and at what pressure?
I am not the authority on anything, so I'd love to hear any ideas, flames, comments, or questions.
Thanks for the input guys.
*note: edited on 06/08/07 to correct the shim thickness, was 0.050", should be 0.025-0.035" refer to this thread:
http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32661&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40
_________________
My Edelbrock Kit Install
DIY: Y7/Y8 Oil Pump Shimming
D-Trannies: 3rd Gear Grind and Popping Out of Gear
Last edited by grizzled on Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Znypar
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:08 pm the ports are really that restricted? holy crap!
Boost Addict
good job!
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225whp 197 torque on a dynojet at 90degF 50% humidity
Top
3gcvcd16
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:12 pm Do the DIY i'm interested.
Boost Lurker
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volcanomike
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:14 pm do it!
Boost Entrepreneur
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007
3:51 pm
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Location: Tehachapi, CA
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BLK92_D16
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:19 pm Plz show a larger pic of the entire pump, and circle the ports that you ported.
Seriously Hardcore
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006
3:09 pm
Posts: 1826
Location: Greenville, SC
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aaopilot1
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:46 pm yup.....DO IT!!!! take many many pics.....i r no read good
Been There
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006
6:37 pm
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Location: p a
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civic2n2000
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:18 pm go for it lots of pics please.
I R Noob
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I like my Honda's Like I love My women----- With D's Instead of B's
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10:40 pm
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Laserjock
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:14 pm Vote to make this a sticky.
I R Noob
good tech writeup
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9:55 am
Posts: 16
Location: NoVA
Top
dema12co
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:21 pm You cleaned up the output from the Oil Pickup boss, but did you clean up the input and match it to the boss on the Pickup itself? That
would help a lot more than cleaning up the output area.
Boost Lurker
_________________
I don't have a cool quote yet, I'm waiting for something to hit me.
Engine parts for sale here -> http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=36615
Suspension and brake parts for sale here -> http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=36616
Seller Vouches: Unsivil_audio, hypnotiqcivic99, noboostnogo
Buyer Vouches: none yet, soon though.
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007
3:34 am
Posts: 190
Location: MD
Top
grizzled
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:55 pm dema12co wrote:
Boost Lurker
You cleaned up the output from the Oil Pickup boss, but did you clean up the input and match it to the boss on the Pickup itself?
That would help a lot more than cleaning up the output area.
I opened up the inlet from the pick-up flange to where it opens into the pump as large as the gasket, which is already larger than the
pick-up tube. I think the pick-up will be the restriction but there's nothing I can think of doing to it except getting a different one all
together.
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006
12:00 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Houston, TX
_________________
My Edelbrock Kit Install
DIY: Y7/Y8 Oil Pump Shimming
D-Trannies: 3rd Gear Grind and Popping Out of Gear
Top
dema12co
Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:53 pm you should be able to flare out the output on the pickup a little to get it close to the gasket and input size, Endyn does this on their oil
pumps as well.
Boost Lurker
_________________
I don't have a cool quote yet, I'm waiting for something to hit me.
Engine parts for sale here -> http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=36615
Suspension and brake parts for sale here -> http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=36616
Seller Vouches: Unsivil_audio, hypnotiqcivic99, noboostnogo
Buyer Vouches: none yet, soon though.
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007
3:34 am
Posts: 190
Location: MD
Top
molecule°
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:31 am Boost Addict
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006
11:50 am
Posts: 2169
Location: constant flux
was it hard to not F up the threads behind here...???
it looks a little hairy in that area...
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miro_gt
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:21 am That's FAQ right there
TurboD16 Resident
good write-up
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D16Z6 stock; ARPs;
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at 1 BAR .. tuned by me
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grizzled
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:37 am dema12co wrote:
Boost Lurker
you should be able to flare out the output on the pickup a little to get it close to the gasket and input size, Endyn does this on their
oil pumps as well.
Thats a good idea dema, I just might try it once I get a new gasket.
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006
12:00 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Houston, TX
molecule wrote:
was it hard to not F up the threads behind here...???
it looks a little hairy in that area...
Those threads are pointless from the tip of that plug into the pump, I wasn't worried about screwing them up =)
_________________
My Edelbrock Kit Install
DIY: Y7/Y8 Oil Pump Shimming
D-Trannies: 3rd Gear Grind and Popping Out of Gear
Top
lkailburn
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:02 am wow great info so far.
i'd love to see a detailed picture by picture writeup on the porting and polishing(i assume polishing helps oil flow? i know you polish
exhaust but not intake manifolds. excuse my lack of fluid dynamic knowledge)
Been There
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004
8:22 am
Posts: 654
Location: NY
-Luke
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y7/y8 mini, wrx urboTurb, ramhorn, jrc 5", 450's, 2.5" dp, 3" exhaust, clutch specialties stg2, act 12lb, rebuilt y8 tranny,
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http://www.lukekailburn.com/
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canukhatch
Post subject: y8 pump
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:55 pm good job i gotta do this soon
I R Noob
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Boosted y7
topmount with a tiny t3 .42/.48(57 trim soon oh yeah baby)
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Super60Si
Post subject:
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:00 pm Am I the only one that see's [X]'s?
Boost Lurker
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9:26 pm
Posts: 121
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confucioussae
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:01 pm im assuming with the raised oil pressure from the pump, it would be a good to suggest an oil restrictor as well to save your rods AND
your turbo seals !!
I R Noob
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006
10:26 pm
Posts: 41
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mafdark
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:43 pm Im in for numbers. Lets see it.
Seriously Hardcore
what size shim and what pressures.
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