March 19, 2005 Interview with .Iordan Green hy Jacoh Richards

Transcription

GLBT Historical Society
http://www.glbthistory.org
March 19, 2005
Interview with .Iordan Green hy Jacoh Richards
Jacoh Richards: I'm here in the youth gender office in San Francisco interviewing my
friend Jordan Green. As ... we were going to talk about your experiences as a queer youth
activist. So ... I guess to start with, when did you first become involved in queer youth
activism and how did that happen?
Jordan Green: O.k. so, urn, to get involved with my queer youth activism, sort of thing,
you have to go back to when I actually came out. Um ... so I had heard about this gay
youth organization called Lyric from my middle school counselor. Who. My best friend,
Arturo Rodriguez, came out in sixth grade; he was just like flamingly gay. There was no
like, no way of him hiding it. And that was a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because it
made him stand up and be even stronger to be who he was. Urn... first, because growing
up in Bay View Hunter's Point, um... in a predominantly black middle school, middle
school isjust fucked up for everybody, but just being the odd man out, can't be any
better. Umm... so I kind of tried to look for resources to help him. "Cause it was really
funny, 'cause that's how you knew, that's how you could tell I was going to be like, some
kind of activist. So, I'm kind of educated, I'm like that isn't right, there should be a
resource. Um... so, I went to go check and Arturo didn't want to end up going to Lyric at
all, like, I was just like, hey dude, you want to come over with me to the Castro? And he
was like "no," and I was like, o.k. And well I'm going around it to check anyway. And
at the time I was being questioned about my own sexuality. I'm not questioning it in a
way of (inaudible) , like hmm, I like boys, that's not normal, because nobody told me it
wasn't normal, not to like boys; it was just like hmmm, I like boys and everybody else
likes girls, I wonder what's wrong with him? I'm like, I like the same sex, everybody else
likes the opposite sex. So I went to Lyric and I um...ended up meeting all these people
and it was really cool, but I knew my dad would flip out it he caught me with gays or
queers or whatever, so every year, my dad and my stepmother would take a trip ahh a
seven (7) day cruise where my sister stayed with my aunt and uncle and I stayed with my
grandma. So I didn't have to be bothered with my sisters for a week. And I had pretty
much anytime I wanted. So, I went over to Lyric everyday after school and (inaudible)
sort of like for those seven days I was in pure bliss. And I was like all of like all of 11 or
12 at the time
And you know I was like, "yeah gay people." Um... so that's how I kinda came into
contact with Lyric and then I started doing activism, after how I was treated at San
Francisco Boys and Girls Club Camp; Mendicino Camp. Um... it was a sleepaway camp
for two weeks and I ended going up there; and every year the relationship with that
boyfriend looked different, so like I went when I was 7 or eight and we didn't kiss or
anything, we were just kinda like best friends.
Jacoh R. : But did you use the word boyfriend?
Jordan G. : Um, yes, well I always had, they always said we were boyfriends and it was
like, like my partners always say I was boyfriends (inaudible). And I was like, o.k. Yeah,
I just think you're cute. Urn... my actual like, first boyfriend was in kindergarten. That
was
Interview with Jordan Green by Jacob Richards 3/19/05 continued
J.G.: actually, my first actual little first, school relationship. Like, see, I was gay from
the gitgo. Like there wasn't any denying it. Urn... and I didn't feel, like it's interesting,
because I talked to a lot of my friends there like, I feel like I had to be a different gender,
I had to conform to something else, I had to be very feminine. And I didn't feel like that,
I felt like a boy. Urn I played with action figures and I played with Barbie Dolls. Like,
people looked at me funny, but I was always like the weird kid, so like whatever I did,
people just SOli of brushed off and dismissed. So I ended up growing up being what is
very "masculine" or "being on the masculine side" of things. Instead of being on the
feminine aspect. Urn, but, I went up to the camp, getting back to the story; I went up to
the camp and I, this year was the summer right before I went into high school. So, I've
been going to Lyric for about 2 years now. Had a pretty grasp of the fact that like, alright
Jordan, you're gay, and ifpush comes to shove, you tell nooobody about this, because
like, it was a big thing in my family. Like, apparently, my dad had a lot of issues around
homosexuality, and so did my step morn and um...my grandmother, not the grandmother I
live with, but my grandmother who died, may she rest in peace and all that stuff. Urn was
a Southern Baptist black woman in a church, and would make my sister go, well make
me go, my sister went willingly to this church every Sunday and I hated it. So, I went up
to camp and made a boyfriend.
J.R. :And At this point and time, just to check, you were living with your dad and step
mom.
J.G.: Yes, I was living with my dad and step morn and sister in EI Serrate.
J.R.: Ooh.
J.G.: Urn, at this point and time ... my morn, I just gotten back in touch with my morn.
And she decided to go up to camp and volunteer and be like a camp volunteer counselor.
For the 2 weeks me and my sister were up there. And the day she left, they caught out
behind the cabin making out with my boyfriend.
J.R.: (Laughter)) Oooh no.
J.G.: So, my morn was driving down the freeway back to San Francisco. When she gets a
call from the camp saying I was caught making out with a boy. Urn, and she like literally
did a U-turn on the freeway and rushed back up. And they called my dad as well. And I
was like, I don't care who you call, just don't call my father; and they called him first.
Urn, this is all before I had any input or any say about what happened to me. They
caught us making out, we stayed in the same cabin, they pulled me out of my cabin and
made me sleep in a cabin by myself. The vacant cabin, 'cause the boys were grouped in
rank and each
rank had 4 cabins. The session I went up 3 cabins were filled in the
oldest boy rank And the last cabin was empty.
So they put you in that cabin?
J.G.: they put in that cabin with a counselor and I like, just stayed there, by myself. I
was separated from everybody.
J.R.: And did you get moved because they thought it was your fault? Or did the other
boy get ... he stayed in the cabin, right?
J.G: Right and he had a brother up there. I think that is something that kept him in the
cabin with his brother. They kept him and his brother together and they moved me out.
I'm not really sure why they moved me. But no one really said anything to me. They said,
you know why you're moving out. Like, yeah, like I know, because I was making out
with a boy. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. Nobody would really talk to me about it. Like no
body really said anything about it. Urn, but, the plus side is that when my mom got up
there she pulled up into the office, rolled up and was the first thing out of her mouth was
like, if this had been a girl, would they have called her? Urn....
J.G. : That's cool.
J.R. : Yeah so my mom was like on my side from the gitgo. And I think that's like why I
came out to her first. She was like urn... hell no. And then she was also pissed because
she had turn around and drive back to Mendocino. The fact is like she was so pissed, and
like so ready to just go to bat for me. Urn, kinda made me like, o.k. I'm ready to do this.
I'm so. Got back.
.J.G.: So, how did this situation resolve at camp?
J.R.: Did they let you leave early? Or did they just keep you isolated for the rest of the
time?
J.G.: No, they just kept me isolated for the rest of the time. We were like a week to go,
for like probably 5 days left in camp and they like, isolated me for the rest of the time.
J.R.: And then during daytime activities?
J.G.: Yeah even sorta that. Like me and the boy kept our distance from each other, 'cause
there was a very clear stigma (inaudible).
J.R.: Did the other kids know? Or did... they must have suspected something. They
pulled you off to the side.
(Talking at the same time)
J.G.: That and because the counselors just told them all. Like...
J.R.: Oh.
J.G.: Yeah, it was intense. Urn, and like looking back on it, I could have gotten soooo
much money from the Boys and Girls Club for discrimination. But, like that wasn't my
style. I wasn't going to be like, "you fucked up my entire life, and I'm going to sue you."
That wasn't me. So I like moved back to the city. That bus ride back was the most
dreadful thing possible. I think I went to sleep. "Cause at the time, if I didn't want to deal
with anything I just went to seep. So, I went to sleep, just put on some headphones and
just prayed that everything was o.k. And I got off the bus and my dad and my mom were
there. And they fought like cats and dogs and my stepmother was there and there was this
big hoopla about me making out with a guy.
J.R.: And was your mom at that point still saying, (inaudible)?
J.G.: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Urn, it was just a big thing and I had to go back home
with my dad, and we kinda didn't talk (chuckle) and we kinda didn't. We just drove back
home. Urn, he asked me point blank was I gay, I said, "I don't know," then I was like,
"no." Urn, and I didn't come out to him until a year later until I felt actually comfortable
on my terms. But we kindajust let it go. And then ummm ...
J.R: He think he believed you when you said "no" or was he just wanting it to go away
and so he dropped it?
J.G.: He wanted it to go away, so he just dropped it. He did try talking to me about
homosexuality and he was like, "I don't understand why you would want a dude fucking
you up the ass or you sucking someones dick totally trying to make it unappealing as
possible to me. He did sit me down and we were driving and he was like you're a black
man in America and if you choose this life style, you're going to make it harder on
yourself. So he was looking out for me, he was like it's not easy being black and gay. He
was right it wasn't easy and it still isn't easy in this country to be black and gay. Urn, but
that kind of lead me to my activism. And it's funny because as I'll go and I'll talk more
about my dad ... then my mom, 'cause my mom has always been so supportive. My dad ...
my mom has always been outright supportive. My dad has questioned me every step of
the way. And I'm kinda am grateful for my dad doing that. Because he made me stop
and think is that something I really want to do. Is this not the way I choose to live my
lifestyle about being out? Or do I want to be out? Do I really want to go through all of
this hardship and being gay and being at the forefront of the gay movement? Like the gay
youth movement at the time. And doing all this stuff that's going to get like, people to
notice me? Ummm, and the answer to that if I could face my dad and stand up to him
about this particular issue 'cause my dad urn, is like six foot tall, 350 pounds. Giant black
man that wears sunglasses at night intimidate people.
J. R. : (Laughter))
J.G.: And if I can stand up to him, even in the tiniest bit, about my sexuality I knew it
was something I was willing to commit my life toward, making sure everybody was safe.
So, I .. .1 just we were driving 9home one day and after I came out to him, like how I
came out to him was really funny too, urn 'cause we were driving in the car and he was
driving and I was like, "Dad, I was like Poppa" and he was like "Yeah?" "I'm like I'm
bi-sexual." Like that's all I said. O.k., sweet and clean. Urn, and he just kept trying me.
Urn, like people were like, 'Oh, God, you told him while you were in the car?' 'What if
he would have flipped the car over?' I'm like, 1 don't think my dad would have done that,
but like, that was something that was really shocking. Urn, so we like ended up like, at up
at a gas station talking about it.
J.R.: Shocking that that you said that to him?
J.G.: Yeah, while he was driving.
J.R.: Yeah.
J.G: I remember the exact place too that 1told him. There's something that I will never
forget that moment. Like, swallowing all of my dignity and all of my pride, and all of my
ego and like, all of my fear and just telling my father, like, this is who I am. Urn and it's
been really obvious like, over the years that I'm not bi-sexual, I'm gay. I just never
admitted it to him.
J.R.: Yeah. (Talking at once). But at the time, did you specifically say bi-sexual?
J.G.: Yeah.
J.R.: Like in your head you were like, yeah.
J.G.: Yeah.
J.R.: And was that because you thought it would be easier for him to accept?
J.G.: It was. It's a lot easier for people to accept, apparently, at least me to accept the fact
that you're bi-sexual, 'cause there's still some sort of hope.
J.R.: Right.
J.G.: That you can be converted to the straight side, and that this is some sort of phase.
And you can be "normal" member of society and reproduce and you know, and live in
the picket fence or ghetto or whatever their aspirations for like black men at the time
were. Ummm ....
(Laughter)
J.G.: So, umm and 1 was like, o.k. Me and my dad ended up having a lot of conversations
about my sex and sexuality and how he viewed me and how 1 viewed him and like, what
that means to be gay, what that means to gay and black in America and what it means to
be x, y, and z. We still don't see eye to eye on a lot of things like, he is, he is like, we are
at an understanding that I'm not going to change. He's not going to change either and I'm
going to still do what 1do. And I'm going to try to make the world a better place. I've
always been the kid that my parents have to sit me down and be like you can't
everybody, you're not Superman. I'd be like 'why?'
(Laughter)
J.G.: That wasn't a good enough answer for me, 1 was always stubborn. That's a genetic
trait on both sides of my family.
(Laughter)
J.G.: So, 1 like, blah, blah, blah. 1was uh; he my dad and 1 were having this like.. .I will
never forget this conversation either, and this is like is kind of like what is an affirmation
for me for doing activism. My dad was driving in the car and 1 was just venting about
(inaudible) bored at that point, and was like just so exhausted. And this was before 1 was
working with any other non-profit before 1was doing like, four or five non-profits at one
time. 1was just like, 'oh my God, their working me 1 have to sit through this' and have
your ever seen a finance statement, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was like, 1 was
complaining about something else, 1 was at a peer health educator meeting and this
person was stupid and he said something really dumb, and like blah, blah, and he's like
this stupid gay white man. And my dad was like, 'why do you do the work you do
When you could do so many other things?' And 1 was like, 'what do you mean?'
He was like, obviously, the kids that go to Lyric don't have anybody that love them and
you have people that love and care about you and support you ... (Chuckle) (I find that
ironic coming from my dad, because we were both at odds at the time) ... um, and are
willing to do anything for you, why do you do the work that you do?'
And 1 looked at him and 1 was like because nobody else will. Because those people aren't
as lucky as 1am to have a dad to drive them home and cares about them enough to
question them and doesn't have a grandmother to cook them food and like, can't do the,
do the stuff that 1do. And it wasn't like sort of like, oh,1 feel sorry for you, it's because
they don't have some of the advantages that should be like basic everyday things (oh, is
it raining?) You're mom and you're dad loving you and you're grandma supporting you
and having your sister have you're back and like having a support network of folks that
aren't like your own age group, like something like wisdom, things you can draw from,
like, 1was very blessed to have that.
.J.R.: So, so his perception was that all the other kids at Lyric didn't have that.
J.G.: Right.
J.R.: Did you agree with that at the time? Or. ..
J.G.: No, urn. I didn't.
J.R. O.k.
J.G.: I didn't.
.J.R. So I, 'cause I could tell you're saying some of the kids that's true.
Yes, some of the kids that's true, because of the time .... (Inaudible) there were kids
that. ... and there people that I hung out with, a lot of they were like homeless and lot of
them had run away and were like kicked out of their house and were trying to get their
life together. They were sixteen, seventeen, I'm fourteen; fifteen and they're trying to get
their OED, so that they can go to City College. And here I am, like, having my parents to
push me to like go to the best high school possible and go to the best college possible and
get a college education. They didn't have that, they have somebody motivating them. So
a lot of them ended up falling victim to quick money and easy money and just trying to
survive. Urn, where, I had all my basic needs met. And so , a lot of my work was making
sure they ad their basic needs met. Because I had this, I want to make sure other people
have that. Urn....
J.R.: And you had shelter and you had adults that were worried about feeding you,
J.G.: Right, right. Just by my stature alone, I'm like not missing any meals or like, or
like .... That was something I did. Like, also because I was really good at it. I was just
naturally, a person that connected with people and I was naturally a person that saw past
what ever you had on, whatever you were wearing, however you smelled like or looked
like or did x, y, z and I think part of that was because I was so sheltered and naive and I
totally questioned. What people were afraid of, I was attracted to just people were scared
of it, and I was like 'why are you scared of this guy?' Even with spiders, I was like,
'Why are you scared of spiders?' Blah, blah, blah.
J.R.: In terms of the people, what were the characteristics that say other people were
afraid of?
J.G.: Homeless youth apparently scare the crap out of everybody. Urn...
.J.R.: So the queer youth who weren't even homeless included.
Interview with .Iordan Green by Jacob Richards 3/19/05 continued
J.G.: Right. Queer homeless youth, especially in the Castro, which is still affluent, gay
white men and they gotten rid of a lot of the youth now. But at the time, there were all
These youth flocking there and like, the rave scene was pretty big, like it just resurfaced
again. So like, there were all these kids that were like, just trying to make ends meet,
trying to live and escaping through a lot of different places so they like, always wore
these funky colors and they always had their hair dyed different things and they always
(inaudible) clothes and wore cool boots and all this stuff.
J.R.: And what year was this about? "Cause you said you were fourteen, fifteen? Yeah,
so, you were born ...
J.G.: 1986.
J.R.: So?
(Laughter)
J.G.: So, (Laughter»
J. G.: No not 2000, then.
J.R.: Late 90's?
J.G.: Yeah, mid 90's.
J.G.: 'Cause I remember it being '96, '97.
J.R.: Wouldn't you've been 10 then?
J.G.: Yes (quietly), goddammit.
(Laughter)
J.R.: Are you more sure of the year or are you more sure of how old you are?
J.G.: I'm more sure of the year. 'Cause I always viewed myself as being older and being
cool.
J.R.: O.k.
J.G.: "Cause you started going to lyric when you were how old?"
J. R.: I was in sixth grade, so however old I was in sixth grade.
J.G.: O.k.
J.R.: I was probably ten.
J.G.: Ten or eleven.
J. R.: Yeah, so
J.G.: Tell me a little about your, sort of the initial Lyric experience. Like when you first
got there. Not like the first day you walked in, but like, so obviously you had a positive
enough experience that you kept coming back. What was your... sort of, do you
remember much about what your perception of like, hey this place is great or you
know...
J.G.: It was a plaee.
(Laughter)
J.R.: It was just a place.
J.G.: It wasn't the place that kept me coming back, it was the people.
J.R.: Um, and I'm laughing because the first time I went to Lyric, I was all often, I
mean I was this little kid and I like was just in middle school and I it's that weird time
when your body isn't like matching you. Like, at all. So like, I was this kid and I felt
trapped in this body and like, what the fuck is going on? My feet had shot out from under
me. So, I was like five feet max. no, no, no. I was like five foot eleven because my
teacher is five feet and I was shorter than her and I had size thirteen shoes.
(Laughter)
J.G.: My hands were big and like my teachers used to, call me "the Ewok," 'cause I
looked like this little Ewok....
(Laughter)
J.G.: ... coming down the hall. And I like, I felt awkward, I felt weird. And I went to
Lyric and there were people like, there were people there who felt awkward and just felt
weird. But they were willing to work through that to like, be productive and be
themselves, and I'll never forget it because, the first day I went, I sat on the couch and
looked all weird and 1 was like, 1was like huddled and 1 was huddled in the couch
looking all scared and timid, And this guy comes over to me, and he had to be like
sixteen, seventeen, didn't know 1was ten probably. And like, started to give me a lap
Dance to some weird like, Blackstreet music. 1 think it was Blackstreet or 112 or
Something and 1 was just like, ro» my God, I don't even know what's going on, I didn't
even know the sensations going through my body. Um, he was like, you're cute, 1 like
you. I was like, OiK.'! Um, um and me, him, and my friend who I've seen her grow up
and have a child and like, go off and be a woman. We all went stickering. That was my
first time at Lyric. We went, she was like '1 have some stickers, I have shoes. 1 have feet,
we are walking around the Castro.' So it took me like (inaudible) to walk across the
Castro, we walked down Mission Dolores, up Mission Dolores, and this is back when
Lyric had money for stickers and could sticker for everything.
J.R.: O.k. so they were just ... I've worked, like outreach for the Lyric. "Welcome to
Lyric Queer Youth Center, here's the address."
J.G.: Right, or for the like Talkline. So, we went down to Mission Dolores Park, came
across and walked back up (pause) walked back up Eighteenth and kind of took a bit of a
detour and ended up back at Lyric and Lyric closed at 6:00 (p.m.) and 1just remember
having the best time with those two individuals, ever!
J.R.: And that was your first, first day at Lyric?
J.G.: That was my/irst day at Lyric. Um, 1just remember like, it didn't matter/or once it
didn't matter that 1was weird or how 1 looked. It was just like; I felt a sense a sense of
community and family from the gitgo. Urn, it's that sense of community and family that's
kept me doing my activism work but has also kept me at Lyric for so long. 'cause God
knows I want to leave.
(Laughter)
J.R.: Um...
J.G.: And we can talk about that later. Yeah totally ...
J.R.: But ...
J.G.: Yeah ...
J.R.: 1 know what you mean by that, but whoever might be listening to the tape won't.
J.G.: Yeah o.k., urn, we can talk about that definitely later, but like, I feel like, I'm so old
at the organization now, 'cause I have literally been there for 7 or 8 years now, 'cause
I'm going on 19. lJmmm ...
(Laughter)
J.R.: Yeah.
J.G.: So I just feel old. Like, I've seen Lyric change. Ummm...
J.R.: I actually have a question about your initial experience there. You said that you
were in a period that you were feeling really awkward just because of like, your age and
the stage where your body was and you went there and there were a bunch of people who
were awkward and I'm guessing not necessarily all for the same reason because they
weren't necessarily the same.
J.G.: Right.
J.R.: No, I was the youngest. I have always been the baby of Lyric until recently.
J.G.: Yeah, did you ... what were YOUL .. were there other kids close to your age or was it
like 10 year old Jordan and then like, 16 year old everybody else?
J.R.: Ten year old Jordan, 16 year old everybody else.
J.G.: So there weren't like 11, 12, 13, 14 year olds at that point and time?
J.R: No. There was one and we ended up going to high school together, but I didn't
know she was my age until we ended up going to high school together.
J.G.: O.k.
J.R.: So at the time were both 12, 13 and she was like macking on some girl in the comer
like making out. Like her sister was going there as well so she had somebody looking out
for her. I had nobody at all to look out for me. I mean, people adopted me from the
moment I got there. I was really blessed to walk in through that door and have people
like, 'nobody fuck with that little kid, he's my friend.' I was like, " O.k .since I'm your
friend, I will go over here. I will stand right here and not do anything. I don't see
anything. I knew like, the strong survive, but the weak ones cling to the strong. And so
like, to stay with somebody who's going to look out for you. Umm ...but, for along time,
there was this age gap there at Lyric. There was this definite ... it was. I've always been at
least one year younger than my peers at Lyric. So, for a long time, I was just like the kid,
I was this little kid who went around with all the Castro Street kids and like, would go
home and like 8:00 when everything was just starting up, everyone knew I had to go
home because I was like 10 and my mom still looked out for me. You know what I
mean?
(Laughter)
.J.G.: Like everybody knew ...
J.R.: Your parents would be upset
J.G.: Right. So everybody knew like, Jordan had to be a the Boys and Girls Club by like,
6:00. Like, let's get him going. Like ... Everybody looked out for me. Ummm ... .it was
great.
J.R.: So you had to be at the Boys and Girls Club because that's where your parents
picked you up?
J.G.: Yeah
J.R.: Did they know you were at Lyric? Or were you like, I was at the Boys and Girls
Club mom and dad?
J.G.: 'I'm like, I was at the Boys and Girls Club the entire time and would be like, gone
for hours on end.
J.R.: Right. So you said initially you went when your dad and step mom were out of
town.
J.G.: Ummhumm
J.R. But then you were able to work it. You'd like, I was at the Boys and Girls Club, but
really, you weren't there.
J.G.: Right. Nobody at the Boys and Girls Club really knew where I was going.
J.R.: 'Cause they don't track necessarily.
J.G.: No they don't. They didn't at the time, maybe they do now. Urn, so I would just go,
I'm at the Boys and girls Club getting really bored really quickly and just fly up to Lyric.
'Cause like, they're literally like a hop, skip and ajump away from each other.
J.R.: This is the Boys and Girls Club on Guerrero?
J.G.: Like 16th and Guerrero.
J.R.: 16th and Guerrero and then Lyric on Collinwood.
J.G.: Umhmmm. Yeah so. 1 ended up going there and that was great. I how I became sort
of a vocal activist. We can flash forward to about three years later. So I'm about. ..
J.R.: So then end of middle school beginning of high school. Yeah in the middle school
area. We can flash forward.
J.R.: This before the summer with the camp incident.
J.G.: Yes. I got hooked up with um, right before that Godfrey was doing some stuff and I
had heard about the peer health educator.
J.R.: Godfrey?
J.G.: Godfrey was the young men's health coordinator at the time.
J.R.: Oh.
J.G.: And I might be getting this confused now, because I'm now all like self conscious
I'm getting all the dates wrong and it's all a big blur to me.
J.R.: That's o.k. Just do your best. It's cool don't worry about it.
J.G.: Yeah. (Laughter).Um, so I was getting hooked up with the peer health education.
J.R.: Could you just give a brief description of what that program is about?
J.G.: That program which isn't in existence anymore here is was designed specifically to
empower youth to put on workshops and help facilitate conferences and caucuses um, for
their peers and educate them on AIDS, HIV, blah ...
J.R.: Other health issues.
J.G.: Um, health and wellness harm reduction, um drug safety. All this good stuff. The
peer health education program ended up getting me out of a year's worth of health
requirements for high school. So like, I was totally safe and totally satisfied with that.
Urn, I ended up working there um, working for the peer health education program and
then in turn, I ended up working for Lyric which was as the young men's health
coordinator intern; not for Godfrey, but for Joe Enrietre, which was the person who came
right after Godfrey. Um, and because I worked with him, he's like worked with peer
health coordinators and what goes on. So I ended up making condom packs and from
condom packs I ended up working with peer health educators and the faeilitators and I
would facilitate the men's group on Friday night. And looking back on that ...
J. R: And how old were you when you started facilitating the young men's health
group?
J.G.: I had to be at least 14.
J.R: O.k.
J.G.: And looking back ...
J.R: You were still pretty young. Facilitating you know, a peer support group ...
J.G.: Yeah. And I didn't realize that like, you have to realize I thought of myself of like
my shit didn't stink, so I was like uh, as an 18 year old blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, totally
handle myself. Urn, so, by 16 I had worked my way up to facilitating the men's group by
myself and not like, not having anybody to watch over me, but working with the peer
health educators was so much fun. Because I was working with them and I uh, I that's
how I started to realize that a lot of my peers in middle school and high school didn't
know about the AIDS and HIV virus. Didn't know about STD's and weren't been
educated about drug risks when many of them were using drugs. There was this whole
stigma...
SIDE 2, TAPE ONE Interview with Jordan Green by Jacob Richards 3/19/05
continued
J.R:
Were talking to them about it, about drugs and HIV and STD's.
J.G.: Well, you were also learning about this in the context of Lyric peer health educator
programs who you said were taking the more harm reduction approach. Which was
probably not necessarily embraced by the schools.
J.R: No not at all.
J.G.: You know.
J.R: So you, you had sort of, you were educated in an environment that had a different
attitude towards what sort information young people should get about.
J.G.: Right, right. ...
J.R: And that (inaudible) rather than, 'just say no,' yeah, if you guys are going to do it
anyway, 'cause you probably are, let me tell you how to do it safely.
J.G.: And that was a huge change for people, and that led me to be as non-judgmental as
I was. So, and I think that's what a lot of people appreciated about me. 'Cause if I was
like some kid saying, , "Look I don't know what the hell the age (inaudible) on like a
regular basis besides what this paper tells me and you obviously know how good it makes
you feel. But you should know like, in a couple of years, won't have your brain.
(Laughter)
J.G.: Just stuff like that. Like "E" was really big at the time, that scared me. "E" was like
the drug of choice. And everybody was like, 'ooooohh "E" .' And weed of course, was
always there, and alcohol was always there and, but "e" was big. It wasn't like now
where like crank is big. So like, all their tweakers are out now, like partying it. Up, it was
like; "E" was like the weapon of choice
J.R.: But you were getting much more balaneed information about "E" than your friends
who weren't getting any from parents or sehool or just found out from their friends how it
felt really good.
J.G.: So I would be like, you guys should be very careful about taking "E." Urn, I
remember 20/20 doing some cover story on it. And I remember like, 2 weeks before I had
talked to somebody and I was like, you should be really careful about using "E," because
people splice that shit with like all sorts of fucked up mess. So like, all sorts of urn, crack
and Ritalin, not Ritalin and heroine and all of these types of drugs that are highly
addictive that you don't want to get addicted to. So, be careful! And they were like, "oh
Jordan, you're always so scary." And then they were like, 'Oh Jordan, you're always so
scary.' I was like' Alright, whatever, like do what you gotta do. Just know what's going
on. 20/20 does this cover story about it, "Oh, my God Jordan, thank God for telling me
about this story. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah". Did you know 20/20 was going to do it?'
'No, I was just doing my peer health education thing.' " They're like, oh, that's cool.
Well since you know so much about drugs, I have this question about sex." And I was
like, 'o.k.' And they were like, 'You're not freaked out about safe sex?' And I was like,
'No, why would I be freaked out? Like, people have sex.'
(Laughter)
J.R.: Urn, and that, like that, it became very clear to me that people weren't having a
forum, like a forum just to talk, like, my peers had no place like to talk, except for to me.
J.G.: Right. And these were your peers in the school system so they weren't necessarily
queer peers ....
J.R.: Even at Lyric, people were like, 'I'm not sure about this'. "Well child, you know
you're not supposed to be usin' a flavored condom to get fucked up the ass, 'cause then
you're buts all sticky like. And that's not a good thing ifhe's not licking it out." And
they'd be like, 'Like Jordan, why are you saying that? ' "I was like Jordan, alright I'm
just trying to tell you the truth. You do what you want with it." And they were like, 'o.k.,
I've never used flavored condoms in my life.' And I, I felt that. But when I started to get
really like the stereotypical activist sort of thing, urn, ljust remember ending up going to
Eugene Oregon. Me, Mario Balsito and Joe. Mario Balsito was doing another education
program for Love and Justice which I ended working for later.
J.R.: So Love and Justice is a queer youth of color program at Community United
Against Violence?
.J.G.: Yeah, thank you. 'Cause I'll just forget and pretend you know what I'm talking
about.
J.R.: And I do know. For tape. The tape's sake.
J.G.: Urn , but Mario and LMario, Joe and I all drove up to Eugene, Oregon to do the
anti-patriarchy conference. And like, this is how I got involved in stuff that (inaudible)
for youth of color, because we ended up going to this Radical Faerie workshop. I think
Joe went to it. "Cause I went to this workshop on Wicca, and I was like, "This is hella
white." Like, this so whack, and I don't mean to be prejudice against white people, but
like at the time I was like, you gotta understand, I was like looking for a religion that
incorporated like my, the spiritual part balanced with my sexuality and my heritage. And
going to some place talking about how witchcraft descended from Europe and you can
connect with the ancient goddess Gya from blah, blah, blah, and Pan from blah, blah,
blah. Wasn't really appealing to like some Black kid from San Francisco.
(Laughter)
.J.G.: That was just like, so, I'm going to go over here and holler at this other guy for a
second.
(Laughter)
J.G.: So I left that workshop really early and went to a Radical Faerie workshop.
J.R.: Where Joe already was.
J.G.: Yeah, Joe was already there. And I remember sitting there and being offended, but
not knowing what that, It was that weird feeling oflike, they're taking people's cultures
and putting it into some fucked ritual about, like. I remember studying about the a
goddess Cali and they were doing something like, Winter Equinox Festival or some shit
like that. This was like the Radical
in LA. And they were like yeah and they were
all dread locking their hair and all this shit and I felt really offended by all this shit and I
didn't know why until Joe and Mario stood and said something. And they were like,
'nrh",,'''' are we supposed to
our culture from if we're like, we don't, like 'cause we're
white and we don't have our culture.'
J.R.: I was just like, "Oh, my God!" And that's when I got pissed off.
Interview with Jordan Green by .Iacob Richards 3/19/05 continued
J.G.: 'Cause white people don't have culture.
J.R.: Right, white people don't have culture. And I'm just like I live in America where I
learned fucking like, about how dead white guys are great for the country all the fucking
time. So like, don't give me shit!
J.R.: And because your culture is taught in the schools, that you somehow, don't have a
culture?
(Laughter)
J.G.: Yeah, definitely. Urn...
J.R.: That's not culture, that's just normal.
J.G.: Yeah. Normal culture was so mainstream that taking on someone else's culture was
o.k. And it wasn 't!
J.R.: And not respecting where it came from
J.G.: Right. And all the people of color, all five of us, were really upset in Eugene,
Oregon at the time.
J.R.: Only five people of color in Eugene, Oregon.
J.G.: Yeah, no, it was literally five of us.
J.R.: And I remember getting up and being, "You people are fuckin' idiotsl! Because
right now this is all a Wicca workshop about like, the goddess and all this bullshit from
Europe. So, blah, blah, blah, and don't give me your bullshitl!" And I remember getting
so mad about that and coming back from that conference not learning crap about antipatriarchy and how men have all this power and like, it's really fucked up and like, I
should be really nice to my grandma, mom and sister, and I should start cleaning the
house. But being really, really empowered to go out and start doing activist work,
especially around queer youth and queer youth of color. Urn, and combining the two. So,
I did all my marching and protesting, and that's how I ended up meeting some of the
coolest, loudest, proudest people I've ever met in my life. And those are people that kind
of inspired me. So I know, earlier we talking about people that sort of inspired me
To do the work, and I really would like to say like, one day I saw Angela Davis speaking
and like, I totally felt empowered. Or like Al Sharpton descended onto my lap and made
me some bighead locust and totally made me an activist. But no, it wasn't like that.
J.G.: And it doesn't have to be someone famous either. It sounds like your relationship
with Joe and Mario in that instance. They were kick-ass men of color.
J.R.: Yeah. Oh my God, it was such an empowering thing. Um, for a long time I didn't
see black men of color until I met people from different communities and I started doing
activist...
J.G.: Black queer men.
,J.G.: Black queer men more. Which is why I love working where I work now, which is
the Black Coalition of AIDS. Just black queer men everywhere, all gay everywhere. All
the time. I'm just like yes, you are all so gay. And I just kinda sit there and like, become a
little kid again. Um...
J.R.: "Cause where were you living at this point in...
,J.G.: I was living with my grandmother. Oh, so after I came out to my dad, we ended up
having a talk. It went on for about two months and we ended up having a talk and I ended
up moving to my grandmother's house.
J.R.: And your grandmother lives ...
J.G.: In Sunnydale in San Francisco.
J.R.: I'd always lived with my grandmother. Like, my dad live in Richmond. I stayed
with him, but every chance I got I was over at my grandma's house in Sunnydale. You
know, spending the night and doing whatever I wanted. And I went to school in Bayview
Hunter's Point and before that I went to school in Oakland. So I had been very aware of
like, who I was as a black person and who I was as somebody who didn't have a lot of
money and didn't have a lot of cash. All these things that like, all these other kids valued,
but, I did have love and I did have parents that were willing to do whatever the hell they
needed to do to make sure I got he best possible urn....
J.G.: What age were you when you finally moved with your grandma in Sunnydale?
.J.R.: That was like two months after I came out. No, no, no two months after the whole
thing happened at camp. So that was like ...
J.G.: Oh, o.k.
J.R.: Yeah. twelve or thirteen.
J.G.: So your freshman year in high school then.
Interview with Jordan Green by Jacob Richards 3119/05 continued
J.R.: Yeah. It was a big transition time, urn, so ...
J.G.: So this was not your Baptist grandma.
J.R.: No, no.
.J.G.: Which grandma is this that you lived with?
J.R.: This is grandma from Louisiana whose Creole and stopped going to church a long
time ago and grew up Catholic and hated every minute of it and just pushed me to do
what made me happy and do what made her proud. And making sure that I did my best.
Urn, and that's all she could ask of me and in tum I did, because she gave me so much
love and support and care. So....
J.G.: Is she your mom's mom or your dad's?
J.R.: She's my mom's mom.
J.G.: So, yeah, kind of coolness over there. Urn so ...
J.R.: So at this point and time, you were certainly living with her in Sunnydale and
going to school at SODA at the time?
J.G.: Yeah, School of the Arts? Which I had come from a predominantly ... going to the
School of the Arts from a predominantly black school in Bayview Hunter's Point was a
total culture shock. Just walking there and seeing some kid with blue hair. Which in tum,
ended up being a girl that went to Lyric with me ....
(Laughter)
J.R: ... when I was like uh, four. Or when I was like, as young as I was when I first
started going out. Urn, but, I ended up going to the School of the Arts and having this
total culture shock and just kind of thriving in that culture of like, all the freaks and geeks
of every high school were somehow shipped to this one. And like, we all had an excuse
to be there like, we all were like 'yeah, I can play the drums' or like, 'I can act' or ...
.J.G.: So you had some sort of arty cover, but just really you all were just there because
you were the freaks?
J.G.: Right, so, it was great! So, um we were there, um, I started doing a lot of my peer
health education work at the same time. Ah, and practicing on my friends. I ended up
getting both David and Jessica with the help of Pretzel; Pretzel now ... (I don't know if I
can say her real name right now or his real name right now). I'm not sure anymore. He
goes by Pretzel, I know Pretzel by many names. But Pretzel at the time ended up getting
Interview with Jordan Green by .Iacob Richards 3/19/05 continued
David .... Jessica... Pretzel and I ended up hyping up Larry so much that David and
Jessica, my two best friends, ended up working for their talk line. And so ...
J.R.: And you all were all SODA students?
J.G.: All SODA students. So, we were this band of queers from SODA, going out there
and making a change. And all my friends from SODA were white but then all the people
that I did my like, no-profity work around were people of color. We were like all these
cool, hip, like "the man is fucked up and here's how were going to change the world' sort
of way.
J.R.: But you said that you didn't really see a lot of black gay men at that particular time.
J.G.: No, I didn't.
J.R.: Was that hard for you? Or was that o.k. Because you had a lot of other people of
color.
J.G.: I had a lot of support and I had a lot of men of color support. Um, but I was really
lucky because I had my dad. And no matter what, I'm almost moved to tears to say this.
But no matter what, happened between me and my father, he was always the perfect
black male role model. He was proud, he was prideful, he was self employed, he
provided for his family. He did the best possible job he could raising a son; a queer son,
('eause I know that wasn't easy for him) and his daughter. And he made sure that they
had everything that they needed. Even after we, um, I moved out. He made sure I had
money in my pocket, had a haircut until I stopped cutting my hair and all this stuff. He
just made sure I was o.k. I always had a place to stay with him. Um, so, I kind of took all
the positive things I loved about my father and infused that with .. .like, my father is
really, really different and fused that with Joe, who is the really queer, male model for
me at the time. Sort ofjust really proud of his person of color stuff. Very proud of who he
was. And just fused those two together to create this model for me. So there was not a lot
of black, queer men at the time that I remember seeing. Like, my mom after finding this
out did try to like, hook me up with all these black, queer men And like, I just never
clicked with them. I was just like, 'hello, you're gay, too gay. You're gay.' And that's all
we talked about.
J.R.: You had nothing else in common.
J.G.: Right, and with Joe, we could talk about Hedwick. Or at least I felt comfortable
with him enough to like, do something else, instead of talking about being gay. So, um.
With those two men in mind, I moved gaily forward with my life.
(Laughter)
J.G.: And I became very, very politically charged. I started doing, planning conferences,
I started with workshops, then with conferences, and I planned the Youth High Five
conferences? I forgot what it's called.
J.R.: Health and Issues for Youth, which is another non-profit.
J.G.: Right, back when they weren't evil. Um ...
(Laughter)
J.G.: I'm being very candid about this. But, before they started like, fucking over youth
and only doing workshops for providers. Um, but, back when health initiatives for youth
did the Unity Jam, that's it Unity Jam 2001, baby!
J.R.: So it was a conference for youth?
J.G.: All youth, not just queer youth. And I ended up working with them and I loved it.
And it was "Youth and Focus," that was the theme. And I ended up doing the HIV 101
awareness game, and I felt so empowered to do that game. And I saw, Godfrey had
actually come in, 'cause he still does work with QH-Force and Q-Action. And he was
like, 'I remember when you were 10, and you said the word "sex," and you would
giggle'. And I was like, "wow." He was like, 'now you're giving like, workshops and
having people put condoms on dildos and all this stuff and being aware, and being
interactive.' And that was one of the proudest days of my life. Um, just like having one of
my old mentors be like, "good job."
(Laughter)
J.R.: So that was 2001, so you were ajunior in high school? Or what year did you
graduate?
J.G.: No, I graduated 2004.
J.R.: O.K., so you were a soph ....freshman/sophomore.
.J.G.: Yeah. So it happened pretty fast (fingers snapping). I started moving pretty quickly
once I got that empowerment thing ...
J.R.: When was the patriarchy conference in Eugene?
.J.G.: I have no idea. I think I was a sophomore in high school. ..
J.R.: O.k.
when I went up to the patriarchy conference. But I did the High five
J.G.:
Conference before I went to the patriarchy conference. Urn, so then, I urn, started
planning conferences and doing all these workshops and peer health education and la, la
being really just active and gay. Urn, not really thinking about the work that I was doing
was changing the world, but it was just, changing my community. Urn, changing how
like, gay white men approached queer youth in the Castro, how gay white men
approached queer youth of color in the Castro. How the black community approached
gay youth in general and how black people approach queer people in general, trying to
bring that all together. That was like, my work. And once I felt semi-satisfied with like,
making sure that all my black friends that had ever known me knew that I was gay, and
that I was the same person that they've always known. Urn, like just kinda having that
there. There are still a lot of issues in the black community. I felt the need to like, move
on and begin to start working with people of color spaces.
J.R.: Rather than exclusively black spaces?
J.G.: Right, yeah. Urn, just because there's lots of bridge building I feel that as people of
color, we can unite and do a lot of good work.
J.R.: Um-hm.
J.G.: Urn, not necessarily uniting so much that we lose our own backgrounds, because
that's what makes us so unique and special. Urn, but definitely working with queer youth
of color, because that was something that I was and something that often got left out of
the equation.
J.R.: In people of color space?
J.G.: Not even in people of color spaces, but in queer spaces too. So like this weird, we
were this weird middle thing like. We didn't necessarily fit into like, the black or people
of color communities that we were from. Black, Latino, Asian, and I'm lumping Asian
together, but Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, Middle Eastern; and sometimes, just like
immigrants. I counted them as well, 'cause they're not from here. Sure they have white
privilege, but like, they're accents and things like that, so they're not from here, so
they're people of color. I'm speaking of immigrants from Europe but also immigrants
from Latin America and things like that. And we didn't necessarily belong in the gay
community either. Nobody wanted us. Nobody wanted to see us unless we were some
fetish. Unless we were cute enough to like, be some sugar daddy or be some Asian
fantasy, to be some "Asian rice dream" or be some chocolate stud or like some black
buck; which makes me sick to my stomach even now.
J.R.: Right.
J.G.: But, I wanted to mach sure that we weren't going to do that. So that's when I
started doing all this work.
J.R.: So were the... you talked a little about some of the work you were doing in queer
specific spaces, but with Lyric and stufflike that sort of working to making queer specific
spaces more inclusive of queer youth of color. Um, and then high five was all just all
youth, so just bring those ... all three of those issues to the larger youth community. Can
you talk maybe about some of the stuff that you did in the people of color bringing
queer youth of color to the.. .issues to those spaces?
J.G.: Hmm. I want to say I didn't do a lot. Because I didn't. I was still kind of having my
issues around that. But, I do remember. ..
J.R.: Sounds like you did stuff informally. Talking with, making sure everybody knew
you were gay.
J.G.: Right and like my sister. Like when I went to an all white high school, me and my
sister decided like no school was even big enough for the both of us. She was like the
sports star and I was like, the stellar artsy type. And we would just clash. Sports and arts
don't go hand in hand sometimes.
(Laughter)
J.R.: For you and your sister.
J.G.: Yeah. So we, Joanique 's friends would come over and would be like "Jordan,
you're gay?" And I'm like, 'Yeah.' Like they would be over at my house, and I would be
trying to like watch a t.v. Show and they'd be like, "You're gay?" I'm like, 'Yeah.' "Are
you sure?" ,Yeah.' "What's it like being gay?" 'Pretty much like being straight, except
for like, you're attracted to the same sex.' "Really?" 'Yeah, pretty much. Like that feeling
that you get when you see a boy on t.v? I get that same feeling.' So just having people to
see me as human. And then I started to work on my BSU a little bit. Um ...
J.R.: At the School of the Arts.
.J.G.: And that was very mueh like being baek in middle school. Urn, just because being
surrounded by the same people. And that sort of familiarity urn, and solidarity between
black folks in the arts was something really strong and really great. Urn, so they were just
like, "Jordan you're gay?" 'I'm like, yeah. And if you have a fucking problem with that,
we'll go box outside.' And there like, "No, we don't have a problem with that." And I
was like, 'Good.' And so Ijust did work, making sure that black folks at my school at
least, knew it was o.k. To be queer and you didn't have to hide it. Urn, and I got a lot of
Friends who were like, "You know, you were the first gay person I ever talked to. You're
really cool." And I was like, 'Thank you. I just try to be myself.' So like, I just tried to be
myself. I wasn't really active in the black community, so I wasn't like, going after
churches or going after school within the black community in San Francisco. Urn, or even
J.G.: people of color community. The most I did with people of color was making sure
that there were queer spaces for people of color. And like, non-queer spaces.
J.R.: So, queer spaces included queer people of color?
J.G.: Right. And like, people of eolor spaces included queer folks. Just trying to do that
whole dynamic.
J.R.: Right.
.J.G.: And so now I'm kinda like, I focus on the queer thing a lot. So now I'm going baek
to the Blaek Coalition on AIDS and working with black folks and trying to like, build
bridges. But like, making sure that black folks with AIDS and HIV are being taken care
of But also black folks that don't necessarily, urn.... blaek folks that are youth, black
youth that aren't being educated are being educated about AIDS and HIV and harm
reduction and all that other stuff, so ...
J.R.: Very cool. So, you talked a little bit about Joe and how he was a really important
mentor and model for you. Were there other \ that sort of in the context of your activism
were important?
J.G.: Joe was the big one.
J.R.: The big one.
J.G.: Urn and then, followed by Joe was Yaz. Urn, who worked at Health Initiatives for
Youth? She was always a big role model to me. Urn, just because she was a person of
color. She did her thing and she wasn't apologetic about it. And she was very proud to be
who she was. Urn, and we had very similar corning out stories. And like, very similar
things that we could connect with. And Yaz was Middle Eastern ad I was black, so we
just kinda connected about this whole perceived fear of Middle Eastern people and things
like that, and the whole perceived fear of black people is something we talked about. And
then right behind Yaz, at the time, was Erica Newport, urn, just because I like saw Erica
and I was like, that girl will be my big sister. She will adopt me or I will adopt her. Either
way, I'm not leaving her side. And I didn't for awhile, I just went kinda went off on my
own way. We ended up being back up again and now we're the best of friends. But she
has always been a role model for me. She's gotten soooo much stuff done. And like
(inaudible) and was like a force of nature to be reckoned with getting all this stuff done
And I looked up to that. I wanted to be her a lot when I was little. I wanted to be Joe as
well. I wanted to be Joe a lot more than I wanted to be Erica Newport. But, I just. They're
also really cool folks of color who came through Lyric every once in a while, like Anna
or Deanna or urn, Ty and her partner, Aretha. They all just came through and like did
these great sort of things and ... these were black folks that were ... well, not Deanna and
not. .. well Anna was black, but not Deanna, ; she was Latina. Those women, those black
women, were just really powerful; just to sec them comer through and be all fierce and
like do whatever they needed to do to make sure youth were being empowered. And so
like, that is kinda something that I've always kept near and dear to me, but I never got the
chance to really know them.
J.R.: Uh-huh. But you were able to sort of see how they were in the world and look up to
that.
J.G.: Um-hmm,
J.R.: And what was in general at Lyric ... so I guess both earlier when you were first
there and later as time went on, like, what was the racial breakdown of who tended to be
there, like were queer youth of color like a big presence there or was it sort of like ...
J.G.: At least in the after school program, queer youth of color seemed to be the predominant force there, 'cause they had nothing to do after school. While everybody else
was out doing sports programs or arts programs, they didn't necessarily feel comfortable
in those spaces. They went to Lyric. And while the talk line was majority white, and
that's something interesting to look at; the after school program has and still remains to
be a queer youth of color space. So, it was good having queer, like, the queer youth of
color space ... the after school program was usually run by a queer person of color;
usually 25 and under. Urn, and they were paid for so they did all this great program work
and stuff.
J.R.: Way cool. Urn, so I guess, urn, so I sorta get a little bit of a different theme. One of
the questions that wanted to ask you about is, right now you're on the board of the
Eugena Project.
J.G.: Yeah.
J.R.: And I sorta of talked with you before about how ...
J.G.: (chuckling). No, I'm thinking about all the boards and crap I have to deal with.
O.k., I'm not going to sleep until I'm 30.
(Laughter)
J.R.: O.k. You o.k. To keep going on?
J.G.: Yeah, I'm great, I'm cool.
J.R.: Urn, so you're on the Eugena Project Board right now which is an organization for
transgender/gender questioning and gender variant youth. Urn, have said before that's it's
really important to you as a non-trans man to be an eye to trans people.
J.G: Fuck yeah.
(Laughter»
J.R.: And so I'm just curious. It sounds like you had a lots experiences that were sort of
(inaudible) youth around pieces of your own identity as a queer youth of color. Urn, how
did that sort of come about? Either for trans stuff or it sounds like the patriarchy
conference also in some ways, in addition to making you pissed of at all the dumb white
people who gave you problems, also made you feel like as a man, I need to be giving
respect to women.
J.G.: Um-hmm. Definitely giving respect to women. 'Cause that's who I was raised by.
Like my grandma is the cornerstone of my existence of my righteousness. She did a lot of
unionizing and union work. So she, when I started getting involved in activism. I have
distinct memories of her having union parties at her house ....
J.R.: That's awesome!
J.G.: ... and like, having Clinton parties at her house. So, just kinda like following in my
grandmas footsteps a little bit. My dad did a lot of work (urn, I'm digressing). Urn so how
did I get a start with trans folks? Andy Duran who is Andy Duran right now. I knew him
before he transitioned. And he was one of my good friends. We were "Champions"
together. A Lyric "Champion" is the higher a honor a youth could get at the time for
doing queer youth work. At least to me, urn. And it was Lyric saying, "Jordan, you did
good."
J.R.: So at their annual award ceremony, they would like, declare a few of you
Champions.
J.G.: Right. And we were like, declared Champions together. And Andy started to
transition. It didn't really strike me as weird. But it did intrigue me in like, that was the
first time I actually met somebody who was trans in the quote/unquote trans sense. Like,
not that trans is like, quote/unquote. But just like, somebody I knew as a trans person.
Um, so I was just like, 'Oh, o.k, well. That's cool.' "And so, do you still like girls?' And
um yeah, I do. "So, o.k., whatever," I don't really know. And then I had somebody pull
me aside. I think it was Joe again pull me aside and was like "dude here's how it works:
gender and sexuality are two different things and I was like "what! What do you mean"
And he was like "you have your gender which you choose and I was like ok and you have
your sexuality which you are born with" And I was like "Ok" or "some people choose"
"alright, but what's the difference?" "Gender is what you like, what you feel like, so, its
in your head. Um and sexuality is what, um who you love." And I was like "oh ok, that
makes since urn." So there was, I started to have urn, I started to have people that started
to come out as trans or started to um transition and they felt totally uncomfortable except
for with me cause I would be like "urn well, ok so what does this mean?" "Well I go by
this name now and I am being called this name." and I was like "Ok" um, and I like this
pronoun." "Alright urn," "I am going to fuck that" like and I was very queeney like I ma
going to fuck that up, I've known you for so long. But when I do, please, please fell free
to like punch the crap out of me. I'll totally accept it, that was my fault and I am going to
try my hardest to respect what you are going through right now. Um, and that was
something nobody had ever heard, at least a bio boy saying that, and least somebody who
was queer, and they would just be like "who are you?" and I would be like "I'm fluffy,
that's what I do." And they would be like "foo-foo" Um, and um, I guess how I became
really, really involved was my friend Ian transition, he was a peer health educator with
me. And he was like "I," He went through a lot of stuff and we bonded over art, and I
was like "are you ok" and he was like "yeah." Urn, and I was like so, like "Hey Ian,
what's up" and he would, urn, I actually forget Ian, well I knew Ian's real name, like I
knew.
J.R.: His old name.
J.G: His birth name.
J.R: Yeah
J.G: Excuse me, um, like that's, that's where it comes in I fuck up, Like I'm still, I'm
still a bio boy at heart, so I'm just like "what? What do you mean his real name is
Birthday?" "Wack wack wack" So even me doing all my trans-activism I fuck up every
once in a while. That's a lesson to everybody, like you will fuck up every once in a while.
Urn, but, I um, Ian felt like he was a guy, and I could respect that. He felt like people
didn't respect that, and I could sympathize with the fact that people didn't respect his
choice. And he was also really poor, and I, I was so lucky to have ten dollars a day, so for
Ian's present for graduating from the peer health education program, I saved up my
money and I took Ian to get his first haircut, and that was his first step to doing what he
considered passing as a guy.
.l.R: Uh, that's like the sweetest thing.
(Laughter)
.J.B: I didn't know it was sweet.
.l.R: '" thank you for your haircut.
J.G: and I was like, I was so weird. I took him to the supercuts, or some crap, on Castro.
And I was like "do whatever you gotta do to him, tell me how much it is" and he was like
"are you sure?" I was like "dude get whatever style you want" and he got this sexy, sleek
haircut and he looked so hot. And I was like oh my god Ian, you look so hot. And he was
like "really you like it?" and I was like "it's so hot!" And I, I still remember that haircut it
was hot!
(Laughter)
J.G: Great, and he loved it, and I felt good, and over the coarse, urn, urn, over the coarse
of getting to know Ian, I, urn, found out all the shit he had to go through just to get his
fuckin name changed, or just to get fuckin legally recognized as a guy. And I was just
like "this shit is fucked up! Like ... "
J.R: yeah
J.G: "gay guys who they have it bad, at least they can go to the DMV and get an ID, for
crying out loud, like you know what I mean. Just like.
J.R: Uh huh.
J.G: without having to go through all this legal bullshit of like proving who you are. And
I felt that was so fucked up. Urn and that made me really enraged and its just like he's
like "this is a common occurrence dude" and I was like "really" And I was like "nobody
does anything about this? What do you mean?" like, and that's how I got involved, that's
how I kind of heard about youth gender project. I was just like "I need to find an
organization that's doing something for you!" Urn.
J.R: Cause by that time you were all in the nonprofit world, here, like this is how I do
things.
J.G: yeah, and I was like "un-un, no, no no. Like, fluffy don't play dat. (Laughter) The
world is fucked up, I'm gonna do something about it."
J.R: Uh-hu
J.G: Urn, so I
?
? Urn, I taught, at the time
?
? I was still working at
[End tape 1, side 2]
[Beginning tape
side B]
J.R: Regarding to his.
lG: yeah.
J.R: or wellness coordinator at Lyric.
J.G: Yeah, Sierra Spring Guard did what Joe did at um, at Lyric, only for trans folks, and
me and Sierra had been friends, like, I love sierra, and the thing, there was James, there
was James, and there was, holy crap, Dylan at the time, but Dylan changed his name
recently, and so like I
J.R: So these were two other Trans guys that you knew
J.G: yeah
J.R: at Lyric.
J.G: Right.
J.R: Two other FTM's.
J.G: Right. And these FTM's, I never really tripped that they were FTM's like they were
just cool folks to hang out with all the time. And I like, I think that one of them wanted to
do Joe, but Joe was hot so everybody wanted to do Joe (Laughter) Including my dog I
think, like, like, um, um, yeah, god I miss him. But sierra at the time, like me and Sierra
had become cool friends too, and it was just great, like, and I was started to just look for
trans resources, and at the time since the trans program was still like something
functioning at Lyric, um, I don't' think I was really interested in YGP, youth gender
project, because I was just like "well Lyric's doing their part, and I'm gonna make sure
Lyric keeps doing their part, and I think I was on the board at that point so I was just like
"Ok, whatever" but after Sierra left, oh did shit hit the fan, um, after Sierra left I was like,
fuck this shit.
J.R: Sierra left Lyric and that trans program kind of collapsed.
J.G: Yeah, it
l.R: After that.
J.G: Yeah, it did, it collapsed hard, um and this just now getting back to somewhere near
functioning, not even near at the level of like where it was before, but just functioning.
J.R: and so it was sort of out of commission for what, a year, two years?
J.G: Yeah, a year, urn, two years, yeah, something around that. So I started in the interim,
I worked with YGP, urn. I found out about it urn, I had heard, I had heard of, YGP
before, when it was based in Berkley and it had a different ED, and Ayden was like some
intern, or something.
.1 .R: Uh-huh.
J.G: Urn, or Ayden actually was going to Lyric and dating another participant there and
like all this good stuff. That participant ended up finding another gender thing. Urn, so, I
ended up getting involved in YGP, but with the general concern that like, I felt it was
fucked up that gay men had this really, sort of even gay men of color, had this really like
"I'm gay. I can't be oppressive any more then I can be." And I was like "yeah dude you
can." Like, uh, "homeboy you need to just like check up on the fact that you just told my
friend who identifies as a guy, and can be perceived by a guy, just, just because this
person was born a woman, that doesn't make them a real man, and they have to leave". I
wasn't going to take that lying down, urn, and my f, I felt him when I first hit him, and
guy got me pissed off even more, I would be pissed off at them but, first I had to deal
with the guy who said the fucked up thing, before I yelled at them. Urn.
J.R: Wait, so your, friend of your who were trans
J.G: yeah
.1 .R: And people were saying messed up stuff to them, would just take it.
J.G: Yeah. And it would just be like, dude what the fuck, "Like why do you take it, I
don't know it happens all the time." "So like change that, like don't do that." So.
J.R: So, well do you remember any specific instance that like?
J.G: Urn,
J.R: Stuff like something happened.
J.G: Recently my friend Ethan, like the whole thing, when My friend Ethan wanted to
join the young men's group, not at Lyric.
J.R: At Lyric? Oh.
J.G: Not at Lyric, at San Francisco State University, and that was being facilitated by,
this bio boy, and this other bio boy came in and was like.
lR: Young men's gay group, or just young men's group?
1.G: Young men's group, um, at San Francisco State, and he was like "You can't be here
cause you're not really a man." Like my friend Ian, Ethan, pardon me, hasn't even been
classified with gender dysphoria. Is that?
1.R: Oh, hasn't been diagnosed.
1.G: yeah
1.R: With gender dysphoria.
1.G: Yeah, diagnosed with.
1.R: Yeah
1.G: Gender dysphoria so he can't even start taking T and he is like really trying to get a
breast reduction, because he has, I guess his breasts are really big, like he wears baggy
clothes because he is not comfortable with his body.
1.R: Yeah
1.G: Um, so his breasts are really bid, so he has to get a breast reduction. Urn, so he just
got, he's just getting his money together for that. Urn, so he, pretty much looks like a
female with a really butch haircut. It didn't help that he got his haircut cut outside of San
Francisco, so like the guy, person that he wanted to cut it to look like a guy, ended up
making it a pixie cut. You're like.
1.R: Oh dead.
1.G: Yeah, how hard is that? I was like, "Ethan baby, I know transy, tranny boy haircuts,
I know the perfect place to take you. Let me tell you about my friend Ian, so like, so I
like, I think I am going to take Ethan to get his next haircut and make sure he gets a cool
haircut. Um, but, like he said that to him, and I wasn't there but I heard about it like
Ethan told me about it and I like flipped out, I was like "Ok." And Ethan was like "Are
you mad?" I was like "no, come here." Like gave Ethan a hug and then I was just like
"really, I just wrote all the opposite of that we need to talk about what just went on here,
because that's not cool" and they were like "yeah we know." I was like "no that's not
cool," like, that sort of shit happening to trans men is something that happens all the
fucking time and like its not cool that they either A) accept it or just be like gay men keep
perpetuating this stereotype of this, this fucked upness that like you would think in a
trans, like, and this is my feeling, this is always been feeling, you would think as a group
of people that are being oppress, that you wouldn't try oppress another group of people
because they were different from you. You would think that, you would logically make
that your mentality, but no, people are idiots. Like, honestly, so, sometimes you gottajust
go up there and make sure people get smacked around a couple of times. (Laughter) With
knowledge, I'm not
1.R: So you were in,
1.G: Supporting violence.
1.R: So you were in this young men's group at State?
1.G: Yes.
1.R: Ok and you weren't there when your friend tried to.
1.G: Right,
1.R: Ok
1.G: right.
1.R: So, but you were in the group so you had the power to say something and be like
"hey you guys, like"
1.G: "That's really fucked up." And like um, that was like one of the major examples,
cause that example just like pissed me, that it has been so recent that it pissed me off so
much, that I can't really remember anything that sticks out strongly for me.
1.R: Right.
1.G: Um, but yeah, so my two trans men, that are really sort of made me acutely aware of
the issues going on as being a trans man, were Ian and Ethan. Um, Ian, being my friend,
like and I've lost touch with Ian, because I'm like I'mjust like "whatever, I'm a Gemini,
I'll just think about Pizza." (Laughter) I'll just think about bunnies over here and if you
don't put any effort into getting to see me I won't see you. But we saw each other a little
bit, urn, but I think Ian started to develop a crush on me, and I was just like "ahh! Don't
really like you like that." Um so...
1.R: too weird?
1.G: Yeah, too weird, and I just found out, I always, my assumption is that when people
transition they were always strait, because all my trans friends who transitioned were
straight. Um, but my friend Ethan, and a lot of my other friends are queer, so not only are
they gender queer, but their queer in their sexuality too.
1.R: uh-huh.
1.G: Urn, queer, maybe if someone listens back in the day to this, like, in the future,
gender queer is like, um.
1.R: I don't think we need to define gender queer I think that is wide enough use now
that.
1.G: Uh-ok, Well hopefully it is still in use.
1.R: But if its not then people can look back and like look all the documents that we are
producing now that,
1.G: yeah
1.R: define all these different terms.
1.G: Uh-yes, then never mind. But like, so like you can be a gender fuck and totally be
queer at the same time. Who knew? And you can be black and gay at the same too! I'm a
1.R: so easy.
1.G: Its hilarious! Its like oh my god, so urn, even after that, after that experience with
Ethan, I read an interview with Margaret Cho, where she defined herself as pansexual, I
looked up pansexual, urn, and I was like that's more who I am, like that's, like, I'm more
attracted to people who present as male then actual male body people, cause I really
really don't need a penis. Like I like mine, but (Laughter)
1.R: You're like "Don't take mine away!"
1.G: Like it really is some gene standing up, spelling my name in snow, but urn, I really
like, if you're hot and you present as a guy, I find you hot, sometimes even if you don't
present as a guy, if you're like just pretending to present as a guy then I'm like oh my god
you're so hot! But usually you've got your own issues and you're queer and you like girls
or whatever, urn I mean whatever I don't care. I can dress up in drag, do the hoola,
anyway, urn (Laughter) urn, sorry I got a little bit "ooglezz" (Laughter) urn, sorry, that's
my whole deal with trans men, I got into, I got involved in trans things from trans men,
urn and then I ended up meeting some really cool trans women, urn. The trans women
were like these illusive creatures of the (Laughter). Like, the people who actually
identified as trans women, because I had a lot of friends who were drag queens, but I
didn't have actual trans women. Uh these trans women friends, until recently, before,
after, after meeting Ethan, or after meeting Ian but before Ethan, so in this in-between I
got a big sister who was trans and another big sister who was trans, but transitioning back
to being a guy actually. Um, but once, one of my sisters, this a trans women urn and I just
love her to death. I don't see her as much as I used to, but like I totally would take care of
her if! could. Urn, she, she's one of my heart and soul, her name is peaches, I love her to
death, but like my involvement was mostly with trans because I saw trans men more.
They were kind ofjust like yeah I want to be a guy, and I was like "ok cool." Trans
women, on the other hand, urn, I had issues with. First of all, because like I have my own
issues and I'm willing to admit that I have my own issues around feminine gay guys,
because I was just like, I was trying so hard to not be a stereotype that I ended up sexual-,
like excluding my friends who were trans.
J.R: So included, will also you excluding friends who were feminine gay guys who
weren't trans or?
J.G: Yeah.
J.R: Yeah
J.G: Actually.
J.R: But then also trans women?
J.G: Yeah, well no, not trans women, but feminine gay guys, 1 think.
J.R: Uh-huh
J.G: And like, feminine gay guys that ended up transitioning that Ijust excluded when
they were feminine gay guys.
J.R: Uh-huh,
J.G: But then 1 kind of like smacked myself around a couple of times. Urn, 1 do that every
once in a while. Just kind of step back and look at what the fuck I'm doin and smack
myself. Corne to me, like god inspiring, god inspired, uh, realization of like how 1 should
change my like, then have other people be like "well it took you long enough." Urn, but,
urn, so 1ended up meeting a bunch of trans women that were really cool to, one of them
being Michael, urn,
J.R: Michael?
J.G: Allira.
J.R: What.
J.G: urn, who's owned the youth gender project board with me, urn, 1 ended up meeting
with him, her, ooh, that's tough to take because 1 realize that 1 fucked up, but anyway. 1
ended up meeting Michael, her through, Sierra at the trans program and urn, ?'s like.
Michael had to like do something to work off some parking ticket through the court, and
working with Lyric and that was really cool, so 1 ended up meeting Michael and just like
being like "I like you you're cool. I'm gonna poke you." And Michael was just really
cool and really nice. Urn, and we ended up bumping in back and forth at all these other
things and like we ended up being really good friends. And that was one of the first trans
women. and 1 didn't even know Michael identified as a women and like the whole idea of
trans, urn, just like didn't really affect me, cause like, or didn't really urn, was really, like
1 had to be like super aware, like walking on egg shells around it, cause like, 1 urn, I, like
1 didn't, everybody kind of knew 1 was trying my best, and like so, and I'm not like the
lightest walker so I'm gonna steps on a few toes and break a few eggs, but everyone
knew 1 was trying, nobody knew 1 was being mean by it. So, like, they just were politely
correct me and make sure I was doing things Ok, and I was just like "ok cool." So that
was my experience with trans men and trans women and me just wanting to make sure
there is a safe space for all of us, not just people that are, that look and talk and walk like
me, which a lot of activicy people can do. And its just like "since I'm Latino, I'm gonna
make sure that I'm doing things for like Latino people only, and primarily Latino men
because I'm a Latino male." And I was just like "nope, if I've done a lot of what I can for
like these groups, and 1 need to help people who are also close to my heart, urn, so its
affecting the queer community for all of us, not just one specific group, was my thing.
J.R: yeah, urn, so you said that sort of your initial gender education who came form Joe,
who pulled you aside who said "let me tell you about gender and how its different from
your sexuality."
J.G: Right, right.
J.R: Urn, did you, after, so that it sounds like that sort of immediately clicked and you
were kind oflike "oh, ok, cool." Did you have any, sort of, after that further gender
education, or were you pretty much like you're like "ok I'm cool, I'll just figure it out as I
go along?"
J.G: I was pretty much "1 I'll figure out as I go along" but I did, have, like I did go
through a couple of workshops about gender and sexuality.
J.R: Oh aw.
J.G: And I did, well I did also end up doing was just, talking to people. I found like the
best way for me to actually be committed to a cause is to talking to people, talking to
people that are going through it, cause I have no ideas what they're going through, unless
I talk to 'em.
J.R: Right.
J.G: Urn, and that's how I got really pissed off: because as I said earlier, Ian was telling
me about all this shit he had to go through just to get his name changed to Ian.
J.R: yeah
J.G: And that's something that pissed me off and something that I wanted to create a
resource for, urn, and yeah, what else do you mean, like any sort of education?
J.R: No, no that sort of answered my question, like you sort of, I was just curious like
how you came to, because people aren't born, I think understanding you know it's a skill
you don't grow up and learn in school, like here's what it means to be transgender.
J.G: Here's the gender binary system. There's a fucked up load ?_? [Laughing] But
what come on anyway, so go ahead, and go to those specific bathrooms. Like.
.I.R: Right Right Right.
J.G: Um yeah, no, um, no, I like, I was very lucky to have people just being like dude
here's the thing. And then like I went through this really phrase of time, like weird phase
in my life, where I was just like "gender and sexuality are fluid and I can be whatever
gender I want to be." And I could, but like using that as a way to just like, kind of get
away with stuff that wasn't ok, like be like "gender is fluid, I'm going to the women's
bathroom cause the guy's bathroom is gross." Um, and then like, I felt that I kind of twist
that back and being like, um, I still do it, just only at the queer center, um, because, yeah,
just in the queer center, but I took a step back and stopped doing it in like, that, sort of,
public place like that, because, urn, it was kind ofjust like not doing anything for the
movement, [ guess, it was just like kind of being counter productive. Like, "gender is
gross" like "bathrooms are gross, so I'm gonna be a women right now." Like, like, for
some people gender is that fluid, for a lot of people though, though, that I've talked to,
like the gender choice that they ehose is something that they have dealt with for a long
time. Urn, and for me to trivialize that just by using it whenever I want it to like go to the
bathroom, or, like to do whatever, was really fucked up and was making me no better
then the people I was trying to educate, um, and people that I was trying to change from
doing that sort of behavior, so I stopped that.
.I.R: Did, was it, did somebody say to you "hey that's"
.I.G: No.
.I. R: or you just sort of it thought it over in your head and you're like "maybe this isn't the
best way."
.I.G: Like I was sitting on the bus one day and I was just like, I did a lot of my thinking
while I traveled on the bus or whatever, and I was like "you know, being that gender is
stupid," and then going into the women's bathroom is not the best way to make you
really have equal rights, "think I'm just gonna, I don't' know, get something." Activism.
.I.R: Yeah .
.1.0: Activism, let me do that.
.I.R: Right.
.1.0: So.
.I.R: Cool, so um, we talked a little about, your work with Lyric, or a lot about your work
with Lyric, and some about your work with YOP, are there other main organizations that
you worked with that you sort of want to touch on.
.1.0: Give some props to.
J.R: Or give some props to, or like say how it impacted you in sort of your developing as
a queer youth activist.
J.G: urn, my work with the people in the Co-Op building, so two organizations, LOVE
and JUSTICI, which stands for "less ?
violenee everywhere, join us in standing
together in community involvement." Score!
J.R: I totally, wow I didn't know that "LOVE and JUSTICE" was an acronym.
J.G: Yeah
J.R: I thought it was just "Love and Justice"
J.G: Yeah, no, it was, join us in coming together, something, I don't forger. Anyway, urn,
urn, urn, fuck, "LOVE and JUSTICE" taught me, urn, pretty much, it was really
empowering to be in a situation with all youth of color who are queer, and we all were
working for something very similar. That was really empowering to me, I bumped heads,
bumped heads with people every once in a while, but through that, I ended up meeting,
like Monica Megamoto, so if this project continues somebody might want to consider
interviewing again, is Monica, urn, he was really cool, she's really awesome, and urn,
Sable, me and Sable, never really got along correctly, but Sable is a very good queer
youth activist, if you could track her down it would be really awesome, and blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, urn, then I also worked with GSA network and
with GSA network, I just went to different high schools and presented workshops and.
J.R: while you were still in high school.
J.G: Yeah, urn, and put on the "overcoming homophobia meeting for youth conference"
every year with Lyric and GSA network, and that was a great little collaboration, urn, at
putting on their conferences every year so that gave me a lot of conference planning work
that I needed to do. It's awesome, just great.
J.R: And did you have GSA at your school that you were active in.
J.G: We did. Urn and I was very active, I was pr-, I was president, for a year, co-president
for two, president all together for three.
J.R: Oh.
J.G: But, urn, our GSA didn't really do anything, we went to an art school, so like people
were all like "Whatever you guys are gay, you're cute, come over here, like have sex
with me." Like, were totally like supportive of that. So like nobody thought there was a
need for our GSA, including some of the members of our GSA. Including some of the
members of our GSA, so.
J.R: So, it was it more of a social thing.
J.G: It was more of a social thing, but it wasn't a social thing as in like the, it was like the
freaks and the geeks, of the freaks of the geeks, of the freaks of the geeks
J.R: Uh huh.
J.G: At Lyric, at,
J.R: SOTA.
J.G: At SOTA, so we kind ofjust let, let em do their own thing, urn, and I wanted our
club to be really activists and like change the world, but like SOTA wasn't one of those
places where you really need to be an activist at your school, so I.
J.R: And was that, did you enjoy being, like having a space where you weren't having to
sort ofJ.G: Yeah.
J.R: -fight a lot of stuff or were you like "Oh man, I could do so much more." Er
J.G: I was, I was like "Oh man, I could do so much more."
J.R: Or, maybe feeling like you should be at a school that wasn't as good, so you could
help bring it (Laughter)
J.G: No, no, definitely not that, I was like "Thank god I don't have to do so much more."
But we should try building off of this uh, idea that we don't have to urn, worry about
being called fagot and do some other work around it and people were like "yeah we
should, are we ordering pizza." (Laughter) Like, urn, so.
J.R: Right
J.G: I was just like oh, well, another one bites the dust, that was a good idea; let's move
on shall we.
.I.R: Right, and you were involved in so much activism outside of school.
J.G: Yeah, I was just like "whatever, y'all are crazy, ohjust see yall on the foot side."
Some people ended up becoming activists some people I never spoke to again.
J.R: Uh-hu. Cool, Cool, trying to think if there are any other activisty stuff that you
wanted to touch on.
J.G: So yeah, I started "The Center for Lesbian Rights." That. (Laughter) Uh, no I didn't
do anything, super big.
J.R: k, cool, there doesn't have to be anything else, I'm just making, giving you the
opportunity so I'm not leaving anything out or.
J.G: No, no, no.
J.R: you're Like "You never asked me about the most important moment of my life."
J.G: Which was like, when I was walking, side by side, with like Jessie Jackson and AI
Sharpton to overcome homophobia in the South, like (Laughter) Like.
J.R: That was you're crowning achievement.
J.G: That time I kissed George W. Bush on national television. Hotness. Hotness. And
overthrew the Republican faith in the one man and he was impeached and thrown out of
office and we got a democrat, yeah.
J.R: That'll be nice, you do that.
J.G: That was my crowning movement as a queer activist I felt like kissing George W.
Bush, gay marriage got passed that day.(Laughter) No Urn, I haven't done anything
spectacular, spectacular, I just was me.
J.R: But you is, you is, you are spectacular.
J.G: You is spectacular. You is, yes you is, you is spectacular.
J.R: Yeah, fabulous. Urn,
J.G: Yes you is.
J.R: So unless you have other stuff, maybe not activist related, other stuff about your
family, or whatever that you want to speak to.
J.G: My family's really gay. They're like flaming homosexuals.
J.R: In that straight person kind of way.
J.G: The only exception is that they like to reproduce, sleep with the opposite sex and
they like, they like take it up the bum every once in a while, No, urn, no I nope, no.
J.R: So my closing question for you then is urn, urn, you know, you, you still are a youth
activist. This isn't, you knowJ.G: Yeah.
J.R: You, you're, you're, you're work is still in progress, what is your, you could say one
thing you that you really want to work on or achieve in like the next, I don't' know, five
years or something. Like, what, what one thing, are you sort of looking to, to the future,
or like an issue or like an organization you want to work with or like something that you
want to see changed.
J.G: I would like to do a national project, a national campaign, urn, cause I've done a
campaign here in San Francisco, I've done a statewide campaign, I'd like to do a
national, urn, that's just my own personal goal.
J.R: Campaign on what issue, on, any, any?
J.G: Any, sort of like.
J.R: Just to get the experience of nationwide organizing.
J.G: Right, but any sort of queer issue, preferably with trans folks of color, that would be
hot. I would, my dream, in five years, if like everything went according to plan, is that I
won the lottery one day, Yes, my first payment I was able to build a queer youth center
where I had things like youth gender project, urn, Lyric, a branch of Lyric, maybe the
ASP program, or the Talkline, ooh, yes, I had the Talkline urn, maybe youth line, GSA
network, community united against violence, all these other things in a ?_? Type
setting, and have them in a centralized location where everyone could get to em. And.
J.R: All different queer youth programs.
J.G: Yeah, and just like start to work from San Francisco outward, urn, and changing the
world, and revolutionizing it, that would be cool, but no, I mean a lot of people say, like,
they have all these lofty goals for the future, and my whole thing is like you just gotta
keep doing the work that you're doing, urn, it's the little things at a time, like, it was the
little victories that ended up making the civil rights movement so big, it was the little
victories that ended up making, thee, urn, just like, its just like the drop, the first drop of
water, you just gotta keep adding to that pool, so one day it just overflows, and like it's a
little like people don't think about gay rights, gay right issues anymore because
everybody has the same equal number of rights, so, I'm just gonna keep doing the work
that I do, so the world keeps changing, changing in a good way. Yeah
J .R: You do that. You out and change the world.
J.G: I will, I will be the sunlight in you're universe.
J.R: You are the sunlight in my universe.
J.G: Now[End of Tape 2, Side B]
[End of Interview]

March 19, 2005 Interview with .Iordan Green hy Jacoh Richards

Transcription

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