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Gilles Vidal
Mi volimo
automobile
Gilles Vidal
We Love Cars
razgovarao
interviewed by fotografije photographs by
portreti portraits
Peugeot Design (pd)
Peugeot Design Lab (pdl)
Laurent Nivalle (ln)
Damil Kalogjera
Daniel Tomičić
182
Razgovarali u Zagrebu, 18. listopada, 2013.
Interviewed in Zagreb on 18 October 2013
¶ Gilles Vidal danas je kao direktor dizajna Peugeot automobila jedan od najistaknutijih svjetskih dizajnera. Na čelu tima
od dvjestotinjak dizajnera i modelara osobno je odgovoran
za dizajn svakoga Peugeot proizvoda. Peugeot je zajedno s
Citroënom dio grupe psa koja je u vlasništvu obitelji Peugeot. Vidal je 1996., nakon diplome na Art Center College of
Design u švicarskome Veveyu, započeo karijeru u Citroënu da
bi napredovao do pozicije voditelja dizajna konceptnih automobila. Godine 2009. prelazi na istu poziciju, ali u Peugeot.
S te je pozicije sljedeće godine unaprijeđen u direktora dizajna Peugeot automobila. U Citroënu je kao dizajner eksterijera radio na projektima C3 (1. generacija), C3 Pluriel, C2 i
Picasso (1. generacija), a pod njegovim su vodstvom nastali
koncepti Osmose, C-Cactus i C-Metisse. U Peugeotu su pod
njegovim vodstvom nastali koncepti bb1, sr1, hx1 i Onyx te
¶ As the Director of Design at Peugeot, Gilles Vidal is one of
the most prominent designers in the world today. He runs a
team of about two hundred designers and modellers, and he is
personally responsible for the design of each Peugeot product.
Peugeot and Citroën are part of the psa Group owned by the
Peugeot family. After graduating from the Art Center College
of Design at Vevey, Switzerland, Vidal started his career at Citroën in 1996, and moved up to the position of head designer
for concept cars. In 2009, he moved on to the same position in
Peugeot, and one year later he was promoted to the Director
of Design of Peugeot cars. As an exterior designer at Citroën,
he worked at C3 projects (first generation), C3 Pluriel, C2, and
Picasso (first generation), while his guidance led to the development of the concepts for Osmose, C-Cactus, and C-Metisse.
Under his command, Peugeot saw the origin of bb1, sr1, hx1
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
oris, number 85, year 2014
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Gilles Vidal, Interview
183
and the Onyx concept, as well as the series models 208, 2008,
and 308. After bb1, Jean-Pierre Ploué, Director of Design of
the psa Group, assigned him to come up with a new design for
Peugeot. Vidal reinterpreted the whole brand, from the logo
to the front bumper, lights, windows, silhouette… Peugeot
can thank Pininfarina from Turin, the best automobile design
studio in the world, for its visual identity; Pininfarina designed
all Peugeots from the 1960s to the beginning of this century.
Peugeot Design; sr1,
konceptni automobil,
2010., proizvođač: psa
Peugeot Citroën
Peugeot Design; sr1,
concept automobile,
2010, manufacturer:
psa Peugeot Citroën
(pd)
184
oris — Gdje pronalazite inspiraciju? ¶ gilles vidal — Dizajneri automobila inspiraciju pronalaze svugdje osim u automobilima; njih pratimo iz ljubavi, ali ne zbog ideja. U razgovoru
s modnim dizajnerima, arhitektima ili dizajnerima namještaja
čujemo da oni prate ono što mi radimo i hvale nas, a mi istovremeno pratimo njih i hvalimo ih, to je krug inspiracije. Dizajner je kao spužva, upija sve oko sebe i svojom kreativnošću i
osjećajem stvara nešto inovativno, relevantno za budućnost,
prilagođeno svrsi i društvu.
oris — Kako određujete budućnost Peugeota? Pratite li
trendove? ¶ gilles vidal — Brend, pogotovo automobilski,
ne može se stalno mijenjati. Moramo graditi strategiju i odrediti što želimo biti za 20 godina. Ja tada više neću biti ovdje, ali
Peugeot hoće i danas moramo znati kamo želimo stići jer ćemo
tada to lakše i ostvariti. Malo-pomalo uvodit ćemo elemente,
detalje, okretati kormilo u smjeru koji će nas dovesti do cilja.
Brend mora imati globalni dugoročni cilj. Naš je cilj dizajnirati sljedeći model, ali i dalje imati dugoročnu viziju i ambiciju.
Naravno, estetski i stilski dizajn moraju služiti funkciji i inovaciji smjera u kojemu želimo ići. Na primjer, kada napravimo
ORIS — Where do you find inspiration? ¶ gilles vidal — Car
designers find inspiration everywhere but in cars – we focus on
cars out of love, not for ideas. When we talk to fashion designers, architects or furniture designers, we hear that they follow
our work and they praise us, and we also follow and praise their
work: that’s the circle of inspiration. A designer is like a sponge,
absorbing everything around him and bringing something innovative to life with their creativity and feeling, something relevant for the future, and adapted to its purpose and the society.
ORIS — How do you define the future of Peugeot? Do you
follow trends? ¶ gilles vidal — A brand, especially an automobile brand, cannot change constantly. We have to build
a strategy and define what we want to be in 20 years. I will
not be here in 20 years, but Peugeot will, and we have to
know today where we want to be because it will be easier to
make it happen. Little by little, we will introduce elements,
details, steer the brand towards the goal. A brand has to have
a global long-term aim. Our aim is to design the next model,
but it also extends further, to a long-term vision and ambition.
Naturally, in terms of aesthetics and style, the design has to
serve the function and innovation of the direction we wish to
pursue. For example, when we create a more effective car by
constructing a new engine, or a lighter car by introducing a
new type of material, we want to express it in its appearance,
aesthetics, volume, and proportions. It is a complex global
project that we deal with daily.
ORIS — How is it possible to predict what will be best
for Peugeot in 2045? It is an awfully long time. ¶ gilles
vidal — Of course we don’t know what cars will look like
then. A model spends approximately seven years on the market, so for us it is thinking three generations ahead. What
we can say is how societies around the world will evolve,
how global organizations will change, how the economy will
change, etc. Based on that, we predict the needs of personal
mobility. Naturally, we don’t know what aesthetic standards
will be present in 20 years, but we can, for example, say that
we want to be better than Porsche, that we want to produce
less models, only sports models, etc. That direction is clearly
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
oris, number 85, year 2014
serijski modeli 208, 2008 i 308. Nakon koncepta bb1 JeanPierre Ploué, direktor dizajna grupe psa, dao mu je zadatak
osmisliti novi dizajn Peugeota. Vidal je reinterpretirao cijeli
brend, od logotipa, preko prednje maske, svjetala, prozora,
siluete... Svoj vizualni identitet Peugeot može zahvaliti najboljemu studiju za dizajn automobila na svijetu, Pininfarini
iz Torina, koji je od 60-ih godina prošloga stoljeća, pa sve do
početka ovoga, dizajnirao sve Peugeote.
efikasniji automobil konstruiranjem novoga motora, ili lakši
uvođenjem novoga materijala, želimo to izraziti izgledom,
estetikom, volumenom i proporcijama automobila. To je složen globalni projekt s kojime se svakodnevno bavimo.
oris — Kako je moguće predvidjeti što će 2045. biti najbolje za Peugeot? To je užasno dugo razdoblje. ¶ gilles
vidal — Naravno da ne znamo kako će automobili tada
izgledati. Model je u prosjeku na tržištu sedam godina, dakle
za nas su to tri generacije unaprijed. Ono što možemo reći
jest kako će evoluirati društva diljem svijeta, kako će se mijenjati globalne organizacije, gospodarstvo itd. Na toj osnovi
predviđamo potrebe osobne mobilnosti. Naravno, ne znamo
kakva će za 20 godina biti estetika, ali možemo, na primjer, reći
da želimo biti bolji od Porschea, da želimo proizvoditi manje
modela, samo sportske modele itd. Taj smjer očito nije prava
strategija za Peugeot, ali bismo, recimo, mogli reći da za 20
godina želimo biti najbolji proizvođač masovnih automobila
na svijetu i konkurirati premium brendovima. Da želimo imati
jedinstvenu poziciju – biti kvalitetniji od premium segmenta,
s pristupačnijim cijenama i uzbudljivijim dizajnom. Da bismo
to postigli, potrebna nam je tehnologija – motori, mjenjači,
alternativni pogoni koje možda sada nemamo i trebamo ih
razviti. Eksperimentiramo s hibridnim motorima na zrak,
not the best strategy for Peugeot, but we could say that in
20 years we want to be the best mass producer of cars and
compete with premium brands. We could say that we want to
have a unique position – to provide greater quality than the
premium segment, but to be more affordable and offer design
that is more exciting. In order to achieve that, we need technology – engines, gear-boxes, alternative fuel that we may
not have now and that we need to develop. We are experimenting with hybrid air engines; we have a 208 with a co2
emission of only 46 g/km, but with relatively high strength. It
could be one of the methods to achieve that goal.
ORIS — How do you envision personal mobility in 20
years? Will most drivers rent rather than buy cars? ¶ gilles
vidal — Car renting will definitely see great progress. Those
will not be classic rentals; it will be a matter of flexibility. We
live at a time when younger generations want instant solutions. They do not want to be tied to anything – they just
want to get a service when they need it. They do not want
two-year mobile phone subscriptions that they cannot cancel.
They want to throw their mobile phones the next morning
and get another one. We live in a disposable culture – not in
the sense of garbage disposal because new generations care
about the environment and have good morals, but there is
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Gilles Vidal, Interview
sr1, konceptni
automobil, 2010.
sr1, concept
automobile, 2010
(pd)
185
this element of rejection. Young people want to satisfy their
needs, impulses, and desires immediately: I want that today!
It can be a sport coupé for the weekend, a scooter for the
rest of the week, a delivery vehicle to help a friend move into
a new apartment on a Saturday morning. This is just one path
because older generations will still be alive. In the next five
decades we will have to offer various options for several generations until we move onto something entirely new that will
completely rid us of the format we know today.
ORIS — What new types of vehicles can we expect today?
¶ gilles vidal — In terms of individual solutions, everyone
wants flexibility. Today you can choose among a bicycle, a bicycle with a power assist motor, a scooter, a large scooter, a powerful motorcycle – from the smallest to the biggest, but there
are many gaps in the offer as well. What is between a small car
and a large scooter? That is why we launched the bb1 concept
zanimljivi. U budućnosti će to tržište sigurno biti puno veće.
Mogli bismo dva sata razgovarati samo o novim nišama koje će
se pojaviti u budućnosti. Možete predvidjeti moguće budućnosti i odabrati jednu od njih za svoj smjer razvoja.
oris — Danas je odgovor na nove potrebe rast broja crossovera. ¶ gilles vidal — Da, obiteljski automobili s 4 – 5 sjedala sve su češće crossoveri. Ljudi više ne žele monovolumene
jer, iako su jako praktični, nisu privlačni. Ljudi ih kupuju jer ih
trebaju, ne zato što ih žele. Crossoveri i suv-ovi ispunjavaju
jednaku funkciju, ali se u njih možete i zaljubiti, oni su poželjni.
oris — Je li istina da ljudi više ne vole automobile? ¶ gilles
vidal — Neki ljudi ne vole automobile i to postaje važno
pitanje. Naravno da mladi automobil vide kao praktično prijevozno sredstvo, ali istovremeno i kao bučan izvor zagađenja
jer bez sumnje to i jest. Ipak, većini ljudi potrebno je osobno
prijevozno sredstvo. Tipično, ljudi koji ne vole automobile
ORIS — Is it true that people do not like cars any more?
¶ gilles vidal — Some people do not like cars, and it has
become an important issue. Young people, naturally, see the
car as a handy means of transportation, but also as a noisy
polluter because it undoubtedly is. However, most people need
their own means of transportation. People who do not like cars
typically live and work in the centre of town, commute by bus,
subway, bike. They only see the downsides of cars because they
do not need them. They voice their opinion and that is why
people write about it. However, driving a car is definitely not the
main cause of pollution – there are at least ten bigger polluters.
ORIS — Including cows. ¶ gilles vidal — Including cows.
Automobile pollution is interesting because it will force everyone – car manufacturers and everyone else – to rethink
the way cars function in urban areas and the way we design
city cars. That is probably why everyone is rushing to develop
za prijateljevu selidbu u subotu ujutro. To je samo jedan put jer
će starije generacije još biti žive. U sljedećoj polovici stoljeća
morat ćemo nuditi razne opcije za nekoliko generacija dok se
ne prebacimo na nešto zaista novo, što će nas u potpunosti
riješiti formata koji danas poznajemo.
oris — Koje nove tipove vozila možemo očekivati? ¶ gilles
vidal — U smislu individualnih rješenja, svi žele fleksibilnost.
Danas možete birati između bicikla, bicikla s pomoćnim električnim pogonom, skutera, velikoga skutera, snažnoga motocikla, automobila, od najmanjega do najvećega, ali u toj ponudi
postoji i puno praznina. Postoji li što između maloga automobila i velikoga skutera? Zato smo ponudili bb1 konceptni automobil. Postoji li što između maloga skutera i bicikla s pomoćnim
električnim pogonom? Samo tu postoje dvije velike praznine.
Postoji već nekoliko vozila koja ih popunjavaju, poput Renaulta
Twizy. Iako imaju velike mane, svi su ti eksperimenti svakako
car. What is between a small scooter and a bicycle with a power
assist motor? There are two large gaps right there. There are
some vehicles that fill the gaps, like Renault Twizy. Even though
all of them have major drawbacks, there are definitely interesting as experiments. This market will be much larger in the
future. We could spend two hours just talking about new niches
that will appear in the future. You can predict possible futures
and choose one of them for your development.
ORIS — Crossovers are a response to the new needs of today.
¶ gilles vidal — Yes, family cars with four or five seats have
growingly become crossovers. People do not want minivans
anymore because they are not attractive despite their convenience. People buy them because they need them, not
because they want them. A crossover and an suv serve the
same purpose, but they can make you fall in love with them,
they are desirable.
žive i rade u centru grada, putuju autobusom, podzemnom
željeznicom i biciklom. Oni vide samo loše strane automobila
jer za njime nemaju potrebe. Izražavaju svoje mišljenje i zato
se o tome piše. Daleko od toga da automobilska vožnja u
najvećoj mjeri zagađuje planet – postoji barem deset većih
zagađivača.
oris — Uključujući i krave. ¶ gilles vidal — Uključujući i
krave. Fokus na automobilskome zagađenju vrlo je zanimljiv
jer će pogurnuti sve, uključujući i proizvođače automobila, na
preispitivanje načina na koji automobili funkcioniraju u gradu
i načina na koji dizajniramo gradske automobile. Vjerojatno se
zato svi žure napraviti hibridne i električne automobile – jer
ionako, prije ili kasnije, a bolje prije, moramo pronaći rješenje
za te probleme, tako da ta inicijativa nije loša.
oris — Znači li to da ćemo u budućnosti vidjeti suradnju arhitekata, urbanista i proizvođača automobila u konstruiranju
hybrid and electric cars because sooner or later – better
sooner than later – we have to find a solution for those problems, so this initiative is not bad.
ORIS — Does that mean that we will see architects, urban
developers, and car manufacturers cooperate in constructing
new types of roads and parking spaces in the future? ¶ gilles
vidal — I hope so. We often conduct such projects with
students. The last example was our cooperation with Strate
Collège, when we worked on a new global system of personal
mobility. In practice it is much more complex. I dream of the
day when we sit down with the French government and discuss
this. They would not want to discuss it with us only – they
would include Citroën and Renault. There is no sense in developing the system for France alone because it would have to be
applied in many countries, so you see how the organizing process becomes more complex, you see the potential problems
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
oris, number 85, year 2014
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Gilles Vidal, Interview
imamo model 208 s emisijom co2 od samo 46 g/km, a istovremeno s relativno velikom snagom. To bi mogao biti jedan
od načina postizanja cilja.
oris — Kako vidite osobnu mobilnost za 20 godina? Hoće
li većina vozača unajmljivati, a ne kupovati automobile?
¶ gilles vidal — Najam automobila sigurno će jako napredovati. Ne radi se o klasičnome rent-a-caru, nego o fleksibilnosti. Živimo u društvu u kojemu mlađe generacije žele instantnost. Ne žele biti ni za što vezani, nego samo primiti uslugu
kad im je potrebna. Ne žele dvogodišnju pretplatu za mobitel
koju ne mogu raskinuti. Žele sljedeće jutro baciti mobitel i
imati drugi. Živimo u kulturi bacanja, ali ne bacanja u smeće
jer su nove generacije jako ekološki osviještene i moralne. Radi
se o odbacivanju. Mladi žele odmah zadovoljiti svoje potrebe,
impulzivne potrebe i želje: Danas želim to! To može biti sportski coupé za vikend, skuter za ostatak tjedna, dostavno vozilo
Dizajner upija sve oko sebe i stvara
nešto inovativno, relevantno za
budućnost
A designer is absorbing everything
around him and bringing something
innovative, something relevant for
the future
186
187
oris — Sviđa mi se što umjesto riječi automobil često koristite pojam osobna mobilnost. Znači li to da ćete u budućnosti biti dizajner mobilnosti, a ne automobila? ¶ gilles
vidal — Naravno. U Peugeotu već krećemo u tome smjeru.
Na tržište smo upravo pustili hibridni bicikl ae21 s prtljažnikom
u središtu. To je samo posljednji dodatak nizu koji seže od
bicikala do kombija i uključuje sportske coupée, male gradske
automobile, skutere itd.
oris — Komunikacija automobila i ljudi sve se više odvija
računalom. Mogu li računala i aplikacije pomoći automobilu da postane atraktivan poput tableta i mobitela? Koliki
je vaš utjecaj na sustav zabave (infotainment) i hmi (Human
Machine Interface)? ¶ gilles vidal — To je komplicirana
tema. Vozaču je vožnja na prvome mjestu. Ako imate putnike,
njih će možda zanimati infotainment. Model 308, na primjer,
ima veliki ekran koji objedinjuje mnogo funkcija. Ne govorim
o infotainmentu, nego o prečicama za upravljanje funkcijama
automobila. Razlika u odnosu na potrošačku elektroniku jest
u tome što ekran u parkiranom automobilu mora izdržati
Peugeot Design Lab:
Neil Simpson, Hélène
Veilleux; dl122,
konceptni bicikl,
2012., proizvođač: psa
Peugeot Citroën
Peugeot Design Lab:
Neil Simpson, Hélène
Veilleux; dl122,
concept bicycle, 2012,
manufacturer: psa
Peugeot Citroën
(pdl)
188
novih tipova cesta i parkirališta? ¶ gilles vidal — Nadam
se. Često radimo takve projekte sa studentima. Posljednji
je primjer suradnja sa Strate Collègeom za vrijeme rada na
novome globalnom sustavu osobne mobilnosti. U praksi je sve
puno kompliciranije. Sanjam o danu kada ćemo s francuskom
vladom sjesti i razgovarati o tome. Oni o tome ne bi željeli
razgovarati samo s nama, nego bi uključili i Citroën i Renault.
Sustav nema smisla razvijati samo za Francusku – on bi se
morao primjenjivati u puno zemalja. Vidite kako odmah raste
kompleksnost organiziranja, vidite potencijalne probleme
vezane za realizaciju. Tek kada uspijemo otvoreno razgovarati, moći ćemo predložiti novi koncept osobne mobilnosti. Taj
koncept ne bi se uklapao u postojeće standarde homologacije
i morali bismo stvoriti novi sustav homologacije maksimalne
brzine, težine, veličine... Teško je stvoriti novi oblik osobne
mobilnosti kad imate zakonska ograničenja u koja se ne uklapaju sustavi budućnosti.
Peugeot Design Lab; dl121,
konceptni bicikl, 2012., proizvođač:
psa Peugeot Citroën
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
oris, number 85, year 2014
Peugeot Design Lab; dl121, concept
bicycle, 2012, manufacturer: psa
Peugeot Citroën
(pdl)
(pdl)
Peugeot Design Lab; tp001,
konceptni sportski sat, 2012.
Peugeot Design Lab; tp001,
concept sports watch, 2012
temperature od +70 °C ljeti, do −40 °C zimi i mora biti otporan na stotine tisuća kilometara vibracija, tako da je to potpuno
drukčiji svijet. Moramo napraviti dvije stvari. Prvo, što je brže
moguće moramo integrirati sustav u automobile i biti svjesni da
će oni uvijek biti sporiji i manje impresivni od potrošačke elektronike jer moraju biti robusniji. Druga je stvar način na koji bi
se mobiteli i tableti povezali s automobilskim računalom. Pokušavamo to riješiti aplikacijom, ali je velik problem dizajniranje
Peugeotove aplikacije koju mogu koristiti svi mobiteli i tableti.
oris — Koja je uloga Peugeot Design Laba? ¶ gilles
vidal — Peugeot Design Lab 85 – 90 % vremena dizajnira za
in bringing it to life. Only when we get the chance to talk about
it openly will we be able to suggest a new concept of personal
mobility. This concept would not fit into the existing standards
of homologation, and we would have to create a new system
of homologizing maximum speed, weight, size… It is hard to
develop a new form of personal mobility when you have legislative limitations in which the systems of the future do not fit.
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Gilles Vidal, Interview
Peugeot Design,
rad na konceptnom
automobilu ex1
Peugeot Design, work
on the concept ex1
(ln)
189
Peugeot Design
Lab: Thomas Rohm;
Powerboat, konceptni
gliser, 2012.
Peugeot Design
Lab: Thomas Rohm;
Powerboat, 2012
(pdl)
190
vanjske klijente, a ostalo za Peugeotove brendove. Na primjer,
oni dizajniraju sve naše bicikle i male proizvode. Trenutačno
radimo za 16 – 17 različitih tvrtki izvan grupe. Od aviona i
brodova do bijele tehnike i sportske opreme.
oris — Jeste li na čelu Peugeot Design Laba i dizajna skutera?
¶ gilles vidal — Vodim Peugeot Design Lab, ali ne i skutere. Tehnički, skutere proizvodi tvrtka koja se nalazi na istoku
Francuske. Radi se o tvrtci koja se bavi dizajnom mobilnosti.
Zasad surađujemo samo povremeno, ali ćemo u budućnosti
surađivati puno više.
oris — Koja je razlika između dizajnera i stilista automobila?
¶ gilles vidal — To je trik-pitanje. Od jezika do jezika ili od
zemlje do zemlje ovi se pojmovi različito doživljavaju. U Francuskoj je stilist (styliste) stručnjak za industrijsku estetiku, što
je slično ili identično dizajneru. Dizajn nije samo estetika, to je
stvaranje dobra objekta. Neki su automobili dizajnerski, a neki
stilistički objekti. Automobil je dizajniran ako u sebi sadržava
inovaciju povezanu s estetikom. Kad imate automobil koji ne
donosi tehničku inovaciju, radi se o stilskom objektu, iako vizualno može biti svjež i maštovit. U tome nema ničega lošeg. Za
mene bi univerzalna definicija glasila: Dizajn je odraz funkcije,
inovacije i estetike; kad kreativci, inženjeri i marketeri rade
zajedno. Stil bi bio samo novi sloj na nečemu već poznatome.
oris — S obzirom na to da ne dizajnirate šasiju i tehničke
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
ORIS — I like the way you use the term personal mobility
instead of the word car. Does that mean that in the future
you will be a designer of mobility rather than a designer
of cars? ¶ gilles vidal — Of course. We at Peugeot have
already set course in that direction. We have just launched a
hybrid bicycle ae21 with a cargo box in the middle. It is just
the latest addition to a whole spectrum of products, ranging
from bicycles to vans, including sport coupés, small city cars,
scooters, etc.
ORIS — People start increasingly communicating with cars
by using computers. Can computers and applications help
the car become as attractive as tablets and mobile phones?
How much can you influence infotainment and hmi (Human
Machine Interface)? ¶ gilles vidal — It is a complex issue.
Driving is the driver’s main concern. If you have passengers,
they might be interested in infotainment. The 308 model, for
example, has a large screen that encompasses many functions.
I am not talking about infotainment, but about shortcuts to
managing car functions. The difference compared to consumer
electronics is that the screen has to endure temperatures of up
to 70°C when it is parked outside in the heat and up to do −40°C
in the winter, and it has to be resistant to hundreds of kilometres
of vibrations, so this is a completely different story. We have to
make two things. First, we have to integrate the systems into
oris, number 85, year 2014
elemente, jeste li dizajner ili stilist? ¶ gilles vidal — Ovisi
o projektima. Na primjer, interijer Peugeota 308 dizajniran je
jer smo stvorili potpuno novu ergonomiju i geometriju kokpita,
iako nema tehnološke inovacije. Prvo smo odlučili reorganizirati komandnu ploču, staviti manji volan, poboljšati kompletnu
ergonomiju i tek smo tada počeli razmišljati o stilu. Oblici, linije
i estetika naglašavaju tehničke promjene – to je čin dizajniranja. Da smo samo napravili lijepe linije i nove oblike, to bi
bio samo stil.
oris — Je li moguće dizajnirati eksterijer ili su ograničenja
aerodinamike, sigurnosti i homologacije prevelika? ¶ gilles
vidal — Mislim da bi dizajniranje eksterijera značilo stvaranje nove siluete. Na primjer, Peugeot bb1 i Citroën ds5 primjeri su dizajna jer donose novi oblik karoserije, novu funkciju.
ds5 ima monovolumensku siluetu, ali je ona spuštena kako bi
izgledao sportski.
oris — Peugeot rcz također je donio novu siluetu. ¶ gilles
vidal — rcz je negdje između dizajna i stila. Ovdje inovaciju možemo pronaći u doživljaju predmeta. rcz je klasičan
2+2 coupé s inovativnom siluetom. Gledano u bokocrtu, luk
krova naglo se spušta i tako odvlači pažnju od velikoga, kompaktnoga volumena na kojemu leži. Tim pametnim trikom
povećana je dinamika volumena i, kao posljedica, ukupna
cars as quickly as possible and be aware that they will always
be a bit slower and less impressive than consumer electronics
because they have to be robust. The second thing is connecting
mobile phones and tablets with the car computer. We are trying to solve that with an application, but it is hard to design a
Peugeot app that can be used on all mobile phones and tablets.
ORIS — What does the Peugeot Design Lab do? ¶ gilles
vidal — For 85–90% of the time the lab designs for external partners, the rest of the time it designs for Peugeot brands.
They design all our bicycles and small products. We are currently working with 16 or 17 companies outside the Group. From
planes and boats to household appliances and sporting goods.
ORIS — Do you also head the Peugeot Design Lab and
scooter design? ¶ gilles vidal — I run the Peugeot Design
Lab, but not the scooters. Scooters are technically manufactured by another company in the south of France. For us it is
the same company that deals with mobility design. For now
we cooperate only occasionally, but in the future we will cooperate much more.
ORIS — What is the difference between a car designer and a
car stylist? ¶ gilles vidal — That is a tricky question. These
terms are perceived differently from language to language
and from country to country. In France a stylist (styliste) is a
Peugeot Design Lab:
Attila Bocsi; Jethx1,
konceptni zrakoplov,
2012.
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Gilles Vidal, Interview
191
Peugeot Design Lab:
Attila Bocsi; Jethx1,
concept jet, 2012
(pdl)
Morat ćemo nuditi razne opcije
za nekoliko generacija dok se ne
prebacimo na nešto zaista novo
We will have to offer various options
for several generations until we
move onto something entirely new
atraktivnost rcz-a. O tome bi se mogla napisati knjiga. Zatim
sijedi pitanje o ljepoti, što je još kompliciranije.
oris — Pronalaze li dizajneri automobila inspiraciju u
specialist in industrial aesthetics, which is similar or identical
to a designer. Design is not only about aesthetics – design is
creating a good object. Some cars are designer objects, other
suvremenoj umjetnosti? Model Lancia Stratos 0 Marcella
Gandinija (Bertone) dizajnirana je u četirima dimenzijama –
dok stoji, izgleda kao da juri. bmw-i Chrisa Banglea iz prošloga desetljeća djeluju inspiriranima futurističkim skulpturama Umberta Boccionija... ¶ gilles vidal — Stil može biti
inspiriran oblicima i plohama iz povijesti, a dizajn se inspirira
idejama iz suvremene umjetnosti. Serija slika Damiena Hirsta
U vrtlogu – utjecaj svijeta na stvari bavi se centrifugalnom
silom. Krajnji je rezultat impresivan, prekrasan u smislu efekata
i boje, ali osnovna ideja nije rezultat, nego proces nastajanja
korištenjem fizikalnih sila. Počnete li od toga, možete doći do
vrlo zanimljivih rezultata u dizajnu automobila. Ne znam je li
to naš pravi put, ali bi bilo zanimljivo napraviti istraživanje s
Damienom Hirstom kao polazišnom točkom i vidjeti kamo će
nas to odvesti. Nije Hirst jedini, možemo naći deset suvremenih umjetnika i zapitati se kamo će nas odvesti.
oris — Radite li takve stvari? ¶ gilles vidal — Povremeno
to radimo (ne govorim o Hirstu, nego o drugim suvremenim
umjetnicima) i dolazimo do rezultata do kojih drugim putem
ne bismo mogli doći. Vrlo je zanimljivo pronaći put, procese,
vrlo analitičke ili intuitivne. Ponekad se samo instinktivnim
bacanjem ideja također dođe do zanimljivih rezultata. Vrlo je
zanimljivo tražiti nove načine promišljanja starih tema. Ponekad pronađete glupe, a ponekad pametne odgovore. Klijentima
Peugeot Design Laba na početku suradnje kažemo: Želimo vas
upoznati, ali ne previše, jer ćemo vam na taj način ponuditi ono
čega se sami ne možete sjetiti. Ako znamo previše o vama, ne
možemo raditi za vas, nismo više inovativni. Mark Twain rekao
je: Nisu znali da je nemoguće pa su to i napravili.
oris — Koje ćemo nove materijale vidjeti u autoindustriji?
¶ gilles vidal — Ima ih jako puno. Onyx je u interijeru
koristio reciklirane novine. Pripremamo koncept koji će u stilu
Onyxa uvesti puno inovacija. Razmišljamo o tome kako zamijeniti karbonska vlakna ekološkijim materijalom sličnih svojstava.
Eksperimentiramo s vlaknima od vulkanskoga kamenja.
oris — Tko pronalazi nove materijale? ¶ gilles
vidal — Dizajneri! Kad je riječ o konceptu, jednostavno je
jer se radi o unikatu i nema ograničenja serijske proizvodnje.
Kad želimo uvesti novi materijal u serijsku proizvodnju, komplicirano je. Razgovaramo o tome s inženjerima i dobavljačima
kako bismo zajedno izgradili industrijski proces.
oris — Gdje pronalazite nove ideje i informacije? ¶ gilles
vidal — Istražujemo na internetu i odlazimo na sajmove
kao što su milanski sajam namještaja Salone Internazionale
del Mobile, pariški sajam aviona Le Bourget, sajam tuninga u
Las Vegasu sema, razni visoko specijalizirani sajmovi novih
materijala...
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
oris, number 85, year 2014
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Peugeot Design:
Athanassios Tubidis,
Amko Leenarts; bb1,
konceptni automobil,
2009., proizvođač: psa
Peugeot Citroën
Peugeot Design:
Athanassios Tubidis,
Amko Leenarts; bb1,
concept Car, 2009,
manufacturer: psa
Peugeot Citroën
(pd)
192
cars are style objects. A car is designed if it contains innovation
related to aesthetics. If you have a car that does not bring any
technical innovation, it is a style object, even though it can
visually be very fresh and imaginative. There is nothing wrong
with that. For me the universal definition would be that design
is a reflection of function, innovation, and aesthetics on which
creative artists, engineers and marketers work together. Style
is just a new layer over something already known.
ORIS — Since you do not design the body of the car nor the
technical elements, are you a designer or a stylist? ¶ gilles
vidal — It depends on the project. For example, the interior
of Peugeot 308 is designed because we created a whole new
ergonomics and geometry of the cockpit, even though there
are no technological innovations. We first decided to reorganize the dashboard, put in a smaller steering wheel, and improve
ergonomics; only after that did we start to think about style.
Shapes, lines, and aesthetics emphasize technical changes, and
that is an act of design. If we had only formed nice lines and
new shapes, it would have been an instance of style.
ORIS — Is it possible to design the exterior or are the limitations of aerodynamics, safety, and homologation too big?
¶ gilles vidal — I think that designing the exterior would
mean creating a new silhouette. For example, Peugeot bb1
and Citroën ds5 are examples of design because they bring a
new shape of the body, a new function. The ds5 has a minivan
silhouette, but it is lowered to give a sport vibe.
ORIS — Peugeot rcz also has a new silhouette. ¶ gilles
vidal — The rcz is somewhere in between design and style.
In this case, innovation is expressed in the experience of the
object. It is a classic 2+2 coupé with an innovative silhouette.
Looking laterally, the arch of the roof drops drastically and
diverts attention from the big, compact volume it is placed on.
This smart trick enhanced volume dynamics and the general
appeal of the rcz. We could write a book about it. But then
there is the question about what beauty actually is, which
makes it even more complicated.
ORIS — Do car designers find inspiration in contemporary art? Lancia Stratos 0 Bertone by Marcello Gandini was
designed in four dimensions – while it is not moving, it looks
as if it is in great speed; Chris Bangle’s bmw’s from the last
century look as if they’ve been inspired by the futuristic
sculptures of Umberto Boccioni... ¶ gilles vidal — Style
can be inspired by shapes and surfaces from history, while
design is inspired by ideas from contemporary art. Spin Paintings by Damien Hirst deal with the centrifugal force. The end
result is impressive, with beautiful colours and effects, but
the basic idea is not the result but the process of creating by
Gilles Vidal, Interview
193
Peugeot Design:
Boris Reinmöller; rcz,
serijski automobil,
2010., proizvođač: psa
Peugeot Citroën
Peugeot Design: Boris
Reinmöller; rcz, mass
production, 2010,
manufacturer: psa
Peugeot Citroën
(pd)
194
oris — Ideja za Peugeot rcz nastala je na sema-i. ¶ gilles
vidal — Tada nisam bio u Peugeotu, ali je tim dizajnera Peugeota na sema-i uočio skraćeni pick-up s kabinom pomaknutom naprijed, što ih je motiviralo na promjenu proporcija coupéa. Svi coupéi imaju kabinu pomaknutu unatrag. Ideja rcz-a
bila je stvoriti novu siluetu postavljanjem kabine u središte i
dodati prtljažni prostor, koji je u 2+2 coupéima malen. Prvi
identitet bio je čisto estetski, ali je postao i praktičan. Jednom
sam se rcz-om s dva bicikla i punom opremom odvezao 500
km od Pariza, što je fantastično za takav tip automobila.
oris — Je li nakon stotinu godina dizajna automobila sve već
viđeno ili je uvijek moguće napraviti pravu inovaciju? ¶ gilles
vidal — Mislim da jest. Možete čak stvoriti i revoluciju. Koncept bb1 bazirali smo na novoj tehnologiji i tako stvorili novu
siluetu, ali to nije mala revolucija. Kad se serijski automobili
počnu proizvoditi 3D-printerima i stereolitografijom, sloboda
oblika bit će beskonačna. Trenutačno je za sve potrebno raditi
kalupe pa su ograničenja velika.
oris — Koliko 3D-printanje i ostale nove proizvođačke
tehnologije smanjuju serije uz istu isplativost? ¶ gilles
vidal — Trebali bismo započeti s posebnim serijama modela,
using forces of physics. If you start from that, you can get very
interesting results in car design. I do not know if that is the
right path for us, but it would be interesting to do research
with Damien Hirst as the starting point and see where it takes
us. Hirst is not the only one; we can find a dozen contemporary
artists and wonder where that would take us.
ORIS — Do you do things like that? ¶ gilles vidal — We
do it occasionally; I am not talking about Hirst, but about other
contemporary artists, and we achieve results that we would not
have achieved any other way. It is very interesting to find paths,
to search for analytical and intuitive processes. Sometimes you
just instinctively express ideas and also come to interesting
results. It is fascinating to find new ways of pondering upon old
topics. Sometimes you come across stupid answers, sometimes
you come across smart ones. At the beginning of cooperation
with the clients of the Peugeot Design Lab, we tell them that
we want to get to know them, but not too much, because that
way we are able to offer them something they would not think
of on their own. If we know too much about them, we cannot
work for them, we are no longer innovative. Mark Twain once
said: They did not know it was impossible so they did it.
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
oris, number 85, year 2014
u kojima bi elementi nastali 3D-printanjem cijenom bili pristupačni, iako skupi. S vremenom će tehnologija postati jeftinija i
brža pa ćemo moći širiti i njezinu primjenu. Prvi automobil s led
svjetlima bio je Audi R8 2007. Visoku cijenu led dioda mogao
je opravdati samo skup automobil, a i jedino je taj automobil
bio djelo inženjera koji su to mogli kvalitetno realizirati. Danas
led svjetla imaju svi. Model 308 ima ih u standardnoj opremi.
oris — Danas su pozicijska led svjetla dio identiteta brenda.
S obzirom na to da postoji manji broj mogućih pozicija od
broja brendova, je li ta činjenica problematična? Tako su
led svjetla na modelu 208 postavljena kao kod Mercedesa.
¶ gilles vidal — Jako dobro pitanje. Peugeot je jedini brend
čija svjetla podsjećaju na jedno oko s obrvom. Nama je jasno
što moramo napraviti. Ako nešto podsjeća na drugi brend, to
je njihov problem. Danju se ionako vidi maska automobila po
kojoj se brendovi prepoznaju, a noću glavna svjetla daju identitet. Istina je da će, kad svi budu imali led svjetla, mnogi sličiti
ORIS — What new materials will we see in the automobile
industry? ¶ gilles vidal — There are many of them. Onyx
used recycled newspaper for its interior. We are preparing a
concept that will introduce plenty of innovation, similar to
Onyx. We are thinking about switching from carbon fibres to
an eco-friendly material of similar features. We are experimenting with volcanic rock fibres.
ORIS — Who finds new materials? ¶ gilles vidal — Designers! For concepts it is simple because they are unique and not
limited by serial production. When we want to introduce a new
material into serial production, then it gets complicated. We
discuss it with engineers and suppliers to build the industrial
process together.
ORIS — Where do you find new ideas and information?
¶ gilles vidal — We surf the Internet, go to fairs – the
Milan furniture fair Salone del Mobile, the sema tuning fair in Las
Vegas, various highly specialized fairs offering new materials…
ORIS — The idea for the rcz originated during sema.
¶ gilles vidal — I was not with Peugeot at the time, but a
team of Peugeot’s designers saw a pick-up at sema that was
shorter, with a cabin moved to the front, and it inspired them
to change the proportions of the coupé. All coupés have a
cabin moved to the back. The idea of the rcz was to create a
new silhouette by placing the cabin in the middle and adding a
trunk, which is normally small in 2+2 coupés. The first identity
was purely aesthetic, but it also became practical. I once drove
an rcz carrying two bicycles and full equipment for 500 km
from Paris, which is fantastic for that type of car.
ORIS — After a hundred years of automobile design, have we
already seen everything or is it possible to create real innovation? ¶ gilles vidal — I think it is possible. You can even
create something revolutionary. We based the bb1 on new
Peugeot Design:
Sandeep Bhambra,
Julien Cueff; Onyx,
concept automobile,
2012, manufacturer:
psa Peugeot Citroën
(pd)
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Gilles Vidal, Interview
195
rcz, serijski
automobil, 2010.
rcz, mass
production, 2010
(pd)
Peugeot Design:
Sandeep Bhambra,
Julien Cueff; Onyx,
konceptni automobil,
2012., proizvođač: psa
Peugeot Citroën
Stil može biti inspiriran oblicima i
plohama iz povijesti, a dizajn
se inspirira idejama iz
suvremene umjetnosti
Style can be inspired by shapes and
surfaces from history, while design
is inspired by ideas from
contemporary art
jedni drugima. Zakon dodatno suzuje mogućnost pozicija. Cilj
i ponos svakoga brenda jest biti različit i za to će se naći način.
oris — Tržište je automobila konzervativno. Jesu li kupci najveća prepreka revoluciji dizajna? ¶ gilles vidal — Prepreka
je nekoliko. Prva je sam brend. Koliko se daleko usudimo ići?
Bojimo li se da ćemo uplašiti kupce? Tvrtka je prvi filter.
oris — Vi ste francuska tvrtka – pomičete granice dizajna
automobila. ¶ gilles vidal — Istina! Ipak, kupnja automobila nakon kupnje kuće najveća je životna kupnja. Kupci pri
kupnji razmišljaju: Jednom ćemo ga prodavati pa moramo
kupiti nešto konzervativno. Automobil je i izraz vaše osobnosti. Kupnjom ekscentrična automobila poručujete kako ste
i vi ekscentrični. Velik broj ljudi ne želi biti ekscentričan. To su
stvari koje marketing zna i sugerira. Cilj proizvodnje prodaja je
proizvoda. Loše je ako se automobil ne prodaje. Treba pronaći
zdravu ravnotežu. Stvoriti automobil koji možda nije onoliko
inovativan koliko bi mogao biti. Ali mi smo Francuzi i moramo
pomicati granice!
196
oris, broj 85, godina 2014
technology and created a new silhouette, but it is not even a
small revolution. Once serial vehicles are manufactured using
3D printers and stereolithography, the freedom of shape will
be endless. Now we have to create a mould for everything,
and there are great limitations.
ORIS — How much can 3D printing and other new technologies reduce the series while maintaining profitability?
¶ gilles vidal — We would have to start with special series
where elements that were created by 3D printing would be
affordable, but still expensive. In time, technology will become
cheaper and faster, so we will be able to expand its use. The
first car with all led lights was the Audi R8 in 2007. The high
cost of led diodes could work only with an expensive car, and
it was the only car that was done by good engineers who could
make it possible. Every car has led lights today. The 308 even
has them as part of standard equipment.
ORIS — Today parking led lights are part of the brand’s identity. Is that a problem considering the fact that there are less
possible types of lights than there are brands? led lights on
the 208 are positioned the same way they are in Mercedes
cars. ¶ gilles vidal — That is a very good question. Peugeot
is the only brand whose lights remind us of an eye with an
eyebrow. If something reminds someone of another brand,
it is their problem. During the day you see the front bumper,
which brands are recognized by, and at night the head lights
give identity to the car. It is true that many cars will look alike
once everyone has led lights. The law additionally limits differences in parking lights. The aim and pride of each brand is
to be different, so there will be a way.
ORIS — The automobile market is conservative. Are buyers
the biggest obstacle to the revolution of design? ¶ gilles
vidal — There are several obstacles. The first is the brand
itself. How far do we dare to go? Are we afraid that we might
scare the buyers off? The company is the first filter.
ORIS — You are a French company, so you push the limits of
car design. ¶ gilles vidal — That is true! However, buying a
car is the biggest life purchase after buying a house. When they
buy, people think about selling the car one day so they want
to buy something conservative. A car is also an expression of
your personality. By buying an eccentric car, you express your
eccentricity. There are a lot of people who do not want to be
perceived as eccentric. Those are things that marketing departments are aware of and the things they suggest. The aim of
producing is to sell a product. It is bad if the car does not sell.
You need to find a healthy balance, create a car that might not
be as innovative as it could be, but we are French and we have
to push limits!
oris, number 85, year 2014
Gilles Vidal, Intervju
Gilles Vidal, Interview
197